Gone but not Forgotten

GT Radio - The Geek Therapy Podcast

#342: The crew talks about some recent celebrity deaths and how we memorialize and pay tribute to meaningful people in our lives. We also discuss how we would like to be remembered.

Transcript

Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined today by Marc Cuiriz.

Marc Cuiriz 0:23
Hey,

Josué Cardona 0:24
Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:25
Hey.

Josué Cardona 0:26
And Link Keller.

Link Keller 0:28
‘ello,

Josué Cardona 0:28
Team. It’s my turn to pick today. And I was reflecting on the before I start, content warnings. We will be talking about people passing away. People dying of diseases, people dying of suicide. It’s a grief and loss episode, but maybe also a celebration of, of, of different lives. So not only how to grieve, but also how to celebrate people who pass and how, how we do that within the culture and different fandoms. So what sparked this for me, was the recent death of Jason David Frank who played the Green Ranger, the original, Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. That show’s from the late 1900s Correct. Is that when it started? I believe so. Yeah. And he? I don’t know, I always it was cool that he was like such a beloved, I thought he was the coolest character. In the original show. I think he was.

Lara Taylor 1:33
Trini was my favorite. And then him but like, Yeah,

Josué Cardona 1:38
I think he was supposed to be the cool, the Cool kid. But then like, he was such a, I think, not only the fans love him, but I think he it always seemed like he loved the job a lot. I’ve seen a couple of the Power Rangers like a convention and stuff and they look they do not look happy. They were. But he just like, he just loved that he kept coming back to the show. He played, he played multiple Red Rangers. And he was like, every time there was a big event, he would always show up. He was even in the last movie that they made. He made a cameo at the end. And I don’t know, there was there was something about his death recently, that first of all, it was suicide. So that was, that’s sad, right? Because it’s like you see, again, I’ve always seen him as like, super excited and interacting with fans and super hyped about the just like being a Power Ranger. And being part of that band culture.

Lara Taylor 2:37
He had literally just posted his convention appearances

Josué Cardona 2:40
schedule

Lara Taylor 2:41
for the next few months.

Josué Cardona 2:42
Yeah,

Lara Taylor 2:42
before it happened. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 2:44
Yeah. Yeah. And, and so I’ve seen I remember when it happened, I immediately texted a friend of mine, who is a huge Power Rangers fan. And like he, like he rewatches the series, like every now and then all of them. He’s a pretty big fan. And, and, like, I wanted to let him know, like, from me, in case he wanted to talk because I figured it would hit him pretty hard. And yeah, I don’t have like, I don’t know too many people that are like that connected. I mean, of course, it happens, but like in my life, and they’re so connected to a character, or, and particularly to the character, I don’t think that he knew too much about like, you know, outside of the character, the actual actor’s life, but then to see his co stars, you know, putting out videos and then seeing all of the, like, tribute videos and photos and stuff. You know, it’s a reminder of how these relationships, how important they are, right? These parasocial relationships that we, that we have with with characters, they can inspire us, they can motivate us. And sometimes they just, I don’t know. Like, we know, they’re not our friends, but they they feel like some, like a part of our lives in some way. And they may be a part of, like, really good moments. And so when they pass, you feel it pretty hard. And of course, there’s something sad about it being a suicide that feels different than like Kevin Conroy has passed passing recently, which was from cancer, I believe right? is that right? Yeah, he died from cancer. And so you know, that was that was less sudden, because we knew he was sick, but then also like, just the celebration of like, so it always comes up right? Doesn’t matter who plays Batman? It’s like, no, Kevin Conroy is Batman. That’s the voice of Batman. That’s what a lot of people think about is Batman. And those, you know, like those losses, it’s like, Damn, it just, there’s something there’s something about them again, we don’t know them personally. But it’s pretty hard. And the other one I was thinking about recently, I have not seen Wakanda forever yet, but I assume,

Lara Taylor 5:07
i have

Josué Cardona 5:07
yeah, but I assume so don’t don’t spoil it for me. Or anyone listening. But there’s something I’m sure that the passing of Chadwick Boseman is felt in is an integral integral to the movie.

Lara Taylor 5:21
without, without spoiling anything.

Josué Cardona 5:24
Yes.

Lara Taylor 5:25
I cried at the beginning. I cried at the end. And this is not a spoiler, the the way they did for Stan Lee, the Marvel logo, it’s all Chad Chadwick Boseman. And it was that got me crying before the movie hit even started. Thank you marvel.

Josué Cardona 5:44
Yeah, I mean, I remember hearing hearing that he died. And it was, it was also like, very unbelievable. when it happened. And it’s funny because like, as a as a, I think, in all three of these cases, like to me there, I I don’t see them as actors as much like to me there the character, because I don’t really know chatter goes on from anything else. And I know he’s done other movies, but I don’t think I’ve seen any of them. And I don’t know. Jason David Frank is just like, Tommy to me. And Kevin Conroy is Batman. Like, I don’t know. I don’t know what else Kevin Conrad has done. I saw him in the one live action thing. I’ve seen him and he played Bruce Wayne. So like, they’re just they are those characters to me. Which is something? Yeah. Interesting. So. I mean, again, those are three characters that are that I felt. I keep saying characters. Those are three people who have who have passed. recently. I know we talked about when Chadwick Boseman died. But yeah, so I’d like to get your thoughts on those. And then also see, you know, what, any thoughts that you have on how, how people can cope with this, when you know, when they are feeling sad. And when they’re feeling? You know, they’re feeling like they’re feeling a loss, even if it’s someone that they haven’t met before?

Lara Taylor 7:15
I’m thinking I have thoughts

Josué Cardona 7:16
Yeah. Can I see your thinkin face

Lara Taylor 7:18
like there are? I think about that, and I actually, I’m in a lot of comic circles. And I’m seeing a lot of like artists and writers for comics who have passed away recently as well. I know it was earlier this year, but George Perez, there’s been a few other really famous I

Josué Cardona 7:37
know the George Perez had passed. Woah.

Lara Taylor 7:40
yeah. There’s another one that is not coming to the top of my mind. But there’s been a few even like friends in the comics industry who have passed. So I have a little more. And I know people who know some of the people who are have met some of the people who have passed both like this. I’m thinking especially if Kevin Conroy. But there’s so much these people touch more lives than any one of us usually touches in a lifetime. And so it can reverberate out. I’ve seen a lot of touching tributes to characters they’ve played and the or written or drawn or the person themself in art form. I mean, there’s like Disney had a Chadwick Boseman mural at Disneyland after he passed. I haven’t seen that much. I’ve seen a few fan art drawings for Jason David Frank. But I think that’s the biggest way I’ve seen people grieve, and process these things. But yeah, this time of year seems to be hitting a lot of people pretty hard.

Marc Cuiriz 9:05
Yeah, I was gonna say that, for me, a lot of what I’m seeing is really just a like a lot of like, tiktoks where it’s like showcasing like, you know, moments in the series or it’s like highlighting like these like very powerful moments and like, they’re, like, in their characters, like, you know, in their particular series or whatever. You know, a lot of it’s like, you know, like moments like that make the boys cry or things like that. But then it’s like showing like all like these great reels and stuff. And for me, you know, I grew up watching the original Power Rangers and stuff, but I don’t think I ever really kept up with it. I think as I got older, it kind of grew out of Power Rangers, but to me Tommy was always my Power Ranger because that’s when they introduced the Green Ranger and you know, Green was my favorite color. So I’m like oh naturally the best. So it’s, it’s been really nice to kind of go back and see these things and it kind of reminds me of like, the feelings that I had, you know, as a little kid watching, power rangers just for the first time, and sort of seeing all these things and also seeing like, like, whenever I see any of those videos sort of come up, I’m always like, going into the comments, and I’m scrolling through the comments and seeing like, all the things that people are writing, and you know, people sharing their own experiences or their own, you know, viewpoints and perspectives as to how these particular characters that these people have portrayed, and how it’s impacted them, or, you know, how greatly it’s affecting them, but also a chance for them to celebrate and remind themselves have all this amazing work that these people have done.

Josué Cardona 10:39
Yeah, and having, like, my first thought is sharing that grief with other people or sharing the celebration. Right? The remembering doing that alone is harder than doing with other people. And thanks to social media, thanks to the comments section in YouTube. Someone can make something and then you know, right there other people there as well. And you can share. You don’t feel as alone, you know, like, Oh, these people appreciated this persons too or like, Oh, this was a, this is a beautiful, you know, tribute to the character. I remember that. That part as well. Which, how did people do it back in the day?

Lara Taylor 11:26
Who knows?

Josué Cardona 11:28
who knows, nobody knows.

Lara Taylor 11:30
You talked about celebration and thinking about the amount of pressure that a lot of people felt, I’m sure, making Wakanda forever. That’s something I remember a lot of questions about what was going to happen in the story, but keeping it as a way to tribute a tribute to Chadwick, Boseman, and there were calls for some people to recast him. And I don’t know Ryan Coogler had a lot of pressure on him. And he did something amazing. It was really special. There are people that I know who are like, hands down. This is the best Marvel movie since Black Panther. It’s in my top set at this point, I can’t rank anything. But it was definitely felt in the care that they took. There’s costumes for mourning, in certain countries in Africa and tribes that they used in the movie, and just the amount of detail that they they brought to it. And I think there’s something about watching the people who are in the film, or the piece of media also mourning. I remember when Glee was filming the episode after Corey Montes died. Knowing that they the actors were actually also mourning their friend. While filming it, I think there’s a lot of rawness in Wakanda forever

Josué Cardona 13:06
does the movie does Wakanda Forever feel? Like, can you feel it? They’re mourning? Chadwick Boseman. Or as well,

Lara Taylor 13:15
I think both, I think both.

Josué Cardona 13:17
Yeah, feels that way?

Lara Taylor 13:19
Yeah.

Marc Cuiriz 13:20
I don’t think there was ever really a moment throughout that movie. Or I could not feel that raw emotion from any of the characters in the actors. Like it’s, it’s present throughout the entire thing. I it was definitely an experience, especially seeing it on the opening night like that, where everybody’s seeing it for the first time. And it’s just, it’s just right there.

Josué Cardona 13:53
Yeah.

Lara Taylor 13:53
Yeah, I mean, I went to see it in the drive-in. And so I didn’t necessarily get to hear cheers or anything. There were a few times where people were honking their horns. But watching people like posing with their car in their black panther outfits, and like someone had a shirt that had Chadwick Boseman face on it, like it was beautiful watching people really excited to see this film. Like I said, many many, many tears in the beginning and the end,

Marc Cuiriz 14:26
yeah, see that? I think that’s a difference like for for me, up until the end. It was silence like everybody was just taking it in at least in the theater that I was in everybody was just taking it all in up until you know, the very end and then you know, the the post credit scene and stuff, then the cheers and everything, but I I have to agree. I think the way that movie is done was it was executed very well. and kind of going back a little bit to kind of like what we were saying earlier, but like, wondering, like, how is it done back then? And it sort of brought up to me like, I remember when, when Robin Williams, you know, passed away or when Michael Jackson passed away and I know like those two people I know Michael Jackson is more than a musician and an artist, but he still had a very powerful impact on on in people’s lives and played an integral role for a lot of people. And just and I just remember, like, when Robin Williams passed, like, I just remember it was like, I don’t think there was like any part of the web, like the internet that I could go to that didn’t have something about him there. And I know like that was like still the beginnings of the internet. But I still think even then, people found a way to still share that grief. I say the beginnings of the internet, but it really wasn’t.

Lara Taylor 15:58
It really really wasn’t but it was beginning to go like beginnings of the internet. I’m thinking more like When Princess Diana died or something that’s on my mind, because I’ve been watching the crown.

Josué Cardona 16:10
That way more accurate. Yeah.

Marc Cuiriz 16:11
I don’t know why that came out of my mouth. It just did. But here we are.

Josué Cardona 16:16
Here we are. And it’s on tape.

Marc Cuiriz 16:18
Yep. Everybody can just, you know, make fun of me on the discord.

Josué Cardona 16:23
It’s up to you if you want to edit it out or not?

Marc Cuiriz 16:25
No, I’m gonna keep it in. Okay, that’s fine. I will. I will allow this.

Josué Cardona 16:30
Yeah, yeah. Ah, Robin Williams hit me hard. I remember.

Link Keller 16:38
Yeah, me too.

Josué Cardona 16:40
To it there. Right. That that’s, that’s someone like, to me. He’s Rob Robin Williams.

Lara Taylor 16:48
Because he’s been so many different things.

Josué Cardona 16:50
He’s not Mrs. Doubtfire. He’s not the genie. All of these other characters? Yeah, yeah.

Marc Cuiriz 17:00
But I still think even though like, yeah, we see him as Robin Williams, there’s usually a character or a few characters that he has played, that we’ve really connected with, and ones that we’ve like, just really enjoyed. And so obviously, when you think about that, a lot of the times you’re going to be more drawn to either rewatching that movie or whatever it might be. And remembering that as opposed to just oh, you know, it’s just, you know, as opposed to just the person, you’re drawn more to specific pieces of media. Like, for me, it was Aladdin Aladdin was my favorite Disney movie, aside from from Hercules. But that’s where I was particularly drawn to, and then it was Jumanji and stuff like that. And I remember for me, when, when Michael Jackson passed, I think that’s when I started having a newfound appreciation for music in general. Because for me, music was always there, but I didn’t really take the time to like, listen to music and try to understand music. But then when he passed and you know, MTV and things like that were playing his music and his music videos just constantly, I was watching them listening. And I was starting to gain a much better understanding and appreciation for music just as a whole. And then I that’s when I really started to enjoy him just as an artist.

Josué Cardona 18:41
I think a lot about death. And I used to be very afraid of losing people around me. Sometimes if I got a voicemail from someone I would think like I don’t want to delete this what if this is the last time I ever hear their voice? And in these people that we’re talking about, it’s so strange that there’s so much content that we can see of them and now they’re just people right who are on YouTube or podcasts right that you can go back and listen to them but like I don’t know I don’t like when my mom passes like I don’t I don’t I don’t have tons of videos and things of her to watch I have some pictures and but there’s something about being if there if there are people that you are characters that you that were super meaningful and then reminds you something reminds you of them. I don’t know I think about how like, oh Mickael Jackson song comes on and you’re like, Ah right that you remember Michael Jackson for you just I don’t know if people change channels anymore, but you know, and suddenly a Robin Williams movie comes on. I know there’s something right there’s something about like how these people can keep showing up and they keep and they can touch The lives of people afterwards because they’ll they’ll watch the movies after the person has passed, and they’ll still be affected by the those characters.

Lara Taylor 20:10
Yeah, I think about it’s interesting because the, the Harry Potter 20th anniversary reunion thing came out ended last year beginning of this year, right? I didn’t end up watching it until a few months ago. For whatever reason, and Robbie Coltrane saying that, you know, he’s not going to be around forever, but Hagrid is. And it was, like, watching it later than everyone else. And then him dying, maybe a month or two after I watched it was a shock. Like, he knew he knew he needed to say something. And I don’t know, it’s good to have these, these reminders of people, both the actors and the characters, and how much those characters meant to those people too.

Josué Cardona 21:13
Yeah, who is the original actor that played Dumbledore.

Lara Taylor 21:17
Richard Harris, who is my favorite Dumbledore

Josué Cardona 21:21
a lot of people’s favorite, right, but he died. And so they recast. And technically Jude Law also plays Dumbledore, right? A younger version. So there’s three versions of it. But like with with Black Panther, they had the opportunity, like the character continues to exist in the comics, but because the movies are kind of their own thing, they were able to rewrite the story to kind of move around that they can also

Lara Taylor 21:48
I’d also say that the movies go along with some of the comics that are out there,

Josué Cardona 21:53
they do. But there’s, there’s like 50 years worth of Black Panther comics, and you can write and there’s all sorts of stuff that happened. And they adapt part of it, and they go back and forth. But they didn’t have to. I’m sure that T’challa has died multiple times in the comics, because which character hasn’t? Right, but they always come back.

Lara Taylor 22:14
Yeah.

Josué Cardona 22:14
And we can’t do that with the in a movie. I mean, you could

Lara Taylor 22:20
they could

Josué Cardona 22:21
I’m gonna I’m gonna touch on this. They what?

Lara Taylor 22:22
they could take could

Josué Cardona 22:24
like Bruce Willis just licensed his likeness to appear in movies in the future, because he can’t act anymore. Because he has I forgot the name of the illness but he it’s it’s like a neurological processing disorder, and he cannot. His speaking is affected and so is his memory. And so he you know, he’s like, I’m retired, but he licenses likeness, so he can technically up here in diehard 24. And, you know, either just make a cameo where he could be the protagonist. I’ve just seen Luke in book a Boba Fett. And again, if

Lara Taylor 23:03
anything’s on the table, table, yeah.

Josué Cardona 23:07
I rewatched that the other day, just for the like, to remind myself how unbelievable it is, how believable it is to see the to see him how unbelievable it is that we can, we can already do that. And yeah, that’s a whole other thing, like in terms of respecting and stuff like that anyway, but but like it was a super important character. And it was I think it was, it was. It’s a fascinating decision to recast him. Let me not recast him. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I mean, technically, because it’s the MCU could have an alternate universe. T’Challa played by somebody else. That’s something they can do in the future. But, you know, it feels like What the Wakanda is, too. I think it’s too symbolic and important in the MCU. To play around with it that way.

Lara Taylor 24:07
I think they wanted to take good care of something that was so important to so many people, especially Ryan Coogler. Being in charge of the movie wanted to make it right,

Josué Cardona 24:20
impactful. Yeah,

Lara Taylor 24:21
and impactful. I think the same thing, the same thing Disney did with when Carrie Fisher died, and they changed the movie. I’m sure the movie will kind of forever was going to be something different. If Chadwick Boseman had still been alive, but it works seamlessly with the universe and the same kind of thing. When Carrie Fisher died having a tribute to her and doing what they could with the footage they had, instead of trying to piecemeal at that time, a CGI reproduction of her.

Josué Cardona 25:02
That was back in the beginning of the internet. Right?

Lara Taylor 25:05
Right. Exactly. The origins of the internet.

Josué Cardona 25:10
Yeah, yeah. Good old 2018 2019

Marc Cuiriz 25:14
Guys everyone knows the Internet didn’t begin until the early 2000s

Josué Cardona 25:20
til Episode Nine.

Link Keller 25:23
When do you think Robin Williams died?

Josué Cardona 25:28
Yeah Marc.

Marc Cuiriz 25:31
No, I do. I do i

Josué Cardona 25:34
for when you need information.

Marc Cuiriz 25:36
Listen I cannot remember the exact year with Robin Williams died, but I am making this for comedic purposes. Okay?

Link Keller 25:43
It was 2014

Lara Taylor 25:48
the beginning of the internet Yeah, that’s that problem

Link Keller 25:53
the year when Al Gore invented the internet.

Lara Taylor 25:56
Everything from 2000 to like, 2018 is the same year right?

Link Keller 26:01
oh jeez

Marc Cuiriz 26:01
100%. Yeah. That’s my my late millennial brain that wants to act Young. Okay, like I know what I’m talking about with the youngins.

Lara Taylor 26:15
Late millennial?

Marc Cuiriz 26:17
I’m on the cusp.

Lara Taylor 26:20
I’m a late millennial.

Marc Cuiriz 26:22
I’m like at the very tail end of it.

Lara Taylor 26:25
The baby end of it okay, baby. Okay, okay.

Link Keller 26:28
You’re an early millennial.

Lara Taylor 26:30
Exactly. Got it flipped around

Josué Cardona 26:32
that’s how time works. Okay, so, so interesting. You said Lara that you’re watching the crown.

Lara Taylor 26:40
Yes.

Josué Cardona 26:41
So we are oh, wait a minute has it happened yet? Has someone played Robin Williams and like a biopic?

Lara Taylor 26:54
There was like something being but it was like a trailer for

Josué Cardona 27:00
I don’t think yeah, it’s happened yet

Lara Taylor 27:01
trailer and did a really good Robin Williams impersonation.

Josué Cardona 27:05
Because Because, of course we have actors playing other people right and telling their story. So you’re watching the crown. And of course, everybody there is is is

Lara Taylor 27:14
a real person,

Josué Cardona 27:16
a historical figure, a real person. A lot of them are still alive. And but Diana in particular, right. You mentioned before?

Lara Taylor 27:24
It is it is haunting how much Elizabeth Debicki is like Diana. And I’m, I didn’t know that much about Diana until like, until she died. But I watched interviews and stuff when I was younger. I mean, I was I was in like, early high school, late middle school when she died. So I didn’t know that much. And just watching. Her portrayal is amazing. And I think some of the actors are questionable, I could say on how accurately they look like these people. But I think a lot of the actors did what they could to mimic voice patterns and mannerisms when they’re moving and talking and it’s it’s sometimes eerie. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 28:18
Did you see that? Kristen Stewart one too?

Lara Taylor 28:21
I Really want to I need to? I’m still trying. I’ve got like one more episode of the crown and then I’m gonna try and find Spencer to watch that. Yeah, the other actress I can’t remember her name who played Princess Diana in the in season four was also really good. Just again, comparing like interviews and things it It’s eerie sometimes. And the crown tries to match like, the clothing and all of that to make it look exactly like it did. Even though a lot of things. Creative license in fictionalization

Josué Cardona 29:02
so I’m remembering the the first doctor and doctor who his he was played by an actor called William Hartnell. And William hartnell died in 1975. But about three years ago, maybe four at this point, a new actor started playing the first doctor. He’s basically like just emulating that that actor perfectly. I think it looks so much like him. And there’s I don’t know, there’s something weird about it. About playing people who we saw in our lifetime, right? Because one thing is like see you’re watching Vikings. Something right? I don’t know, for most people.

Lara Taylor 29:49
I don’t know. I’ve seen so many versions of Ragnar Lothbrok and different games and shows and I’m like I they all become one. In my head.

Josué Cardona 29:59
you never met him?

Lara Taylor 30:01
Never met him no

Josué Cardona 30:02
is my point. Yeah. And now there’s, there’s, you know, to see. I don’t know, there’s something about that there’s something about it. And I’m jumping all over the place. But I do want to point out that if you if you do not have a, you know, friends who have the same appreciation for these people, and you feel alone, and you don’t have access to some kind of fandom or group that you feel comfortable with that, that 988 exists, and that’s a suicide hotline and a support line. I don’t think we’ve talked about it before, but that that recently happened where that that particular number replaced the the suicide hotline,

Lara Taylor 30:46
logic’s song

Josué Cardona 30:47
logic’s song

Lara Taylor 30:48
now out dated.

Josué Cardona 30:49
obsolete Now you got to explain it to people. What’s that song about?

Lara Taylor 30:53
That used to be the number

Josué Cardona 30:55
what’s a seven digit what’s What’s a 10? Digit? Number one is that? No. No. 988 If you need something, tell your friends. Someone who have any of you volunteered at a crisis hotline?

Lara Taylor 31:13
No.

Josué Cardona 31:14
So I have and it was always interesting, how many people called sometimes just because they were lonely. And sometimes we had to limit those people because like they would call very often. And so we would, you know, then we’d kind of, you know, make sure that we check. We checked in on them how they were doing. But you knew that they were just, they’re just alone, they didn’t have anybody. And so even that that brief conversation, that brief connection was important. But we also get those from the parasocial relationships too right like maybe like their something, it’s not just a comfort, we talked about comfort media, but I think there are comfort characters. And actors and personalities, I would say even personalities more, right. Like, there’s a reason why vloggers are very popular. They, some have millions of subscribers, because it’s like, I just want to see what they’re up to. I’ve been watching plant videos. And at this point, there’s some people that like, I’m just spending an hour with them while they’re watering their plants. It is I don’t know what happened to me. I don’t know who I am anymore. But there’s something about that. I’m like, yeah, no, wow. And I’m gonna do the dishes. And I’ll do my plants too. While you’re, while you’re, while you’re doing your plant things just, you know, reinforce that those relationships matter. And these recent ones, I know that you know, that. They’re the ones that we started talking about Chadwick Boseman. Of course, more, more recently, but But Tommy, and Batman, like those, those were my childhood, you know. And still, my childhood hasn’t ended i think. Any other thoughts on this?

Link Keller 33:08
Yeah, um, Grief is a multifaceted experience. But the main features of it are coming to terms with the person who died is not around anymore. And facing your own mortality. At some point, you will not be around anymore. In the way that people cope with those aspects, I think is very interesting. And Art has always been a huge part of that. For example, the phonograph, which was invented in 1877, by Thomas Edison

Josué Cardona 33:56
before the internet,

Link Keller 33:57
early internet,

Lara Taylor 33:58
only a little bit before the internet,

Link Keller 34:01
early internet. No, the phonograph. So voice recording on, you know, wax cylinders. It was originally created to record people’s like, dying words, basically. And it was this big deal that is like you could hear someone’s voice after they were dead. And that shifted. Everything that has impacted all of the media we have now, is that aspect is that death doesn’t mean that you completely 100% cease to exist. There are records of you. There are voicemail messages that people save, so that they can listen to it again, or maybe not even listen to it. Just know that it’s there.

Lara Taylor 34:50
Right.

Link Keller 34:52
And I think it’s really important to remember that aspect that you know, it It’s so fun and exciting to watch a new movie in a franchise you’re excited about. And, you know, I think sometimes it’s important to take a little a little beat and remember, like, this stuff isn’t forever. And they’ll echo through time a lot longer than they would have 100 200 years ago. But I hope that it gets people to reflect on the ways that they can be more present currently, and experience things with the people around them. And connect and be present. And, yeah, death uh death comes for us all,

Josué Cardona 35:49
have you seen the video does a YouTube video called player two? Oh, it’s about this. It’s based on based on a comment from someone else. But it’s about this, this kid whose father on a xbox and had a record a time lap record. And I forgot what racing game it was. And so he talks about how he plays that game and that track, because his father’s ghost is still in Ghost, meaning he has a record. And so the game has like a translucent version of the car that is representing that, that round around the track. And that he races it because it makes him you know, reminds him of playing with his father and he feels like he’s playing with his father. But every time he gets to the end, he stops right before the the end. Because if he beats his dad’s score, he’ll, it’ll overwrite it. And so he doesn’t want to beat his dad’s time so that he can come back and do it again. fucks me up every time.

Link Keller 36:55
I do love that story. And also the one about the original Animal Crossing and how they played with their mom. And their mom would always send them letters through the mail. And when their mom passed, it’s like I still have like, I still get letters from my mom, because you can set up the letters to send in the future. And so it’s like getting birthday messages from them. Everything. I think that’s really sweet. I do I do love how video games co opted a lot of death related words like you know, you have a number of lives, and then you die. And then ghosts in racing games and stuff like that. And I do love that as the metaphoricalized. Ghost and then people were like, actually, we’re gonna make it real again.

Josué Cardona 37:36
yup Yep. Yeah. That is that is. I mean, is it? I don’t would you choose to? Because we, we have the technology to create, like a chatbot. Right, that that is supposed to represent, you know, someone we can

Link Keller 37:59
that black mirror episode?

Josué Cardona 38:02
there, like the tech, like the tech is being developed. I like that, like you can you can do that

Lara Taylor 38:07
several things in black mirror episodes have been developed?

Josué Cardona 38:12
Yeah. Yeah. There’s the right, there’s that you can recreate someone’s voice. You can recreate someone’s likeness, like you can, you can, and do it in a very lifelike manner. Like we’ve been able to do all of that for a while, but we can do it in in a way that’s automated, right? In a way where it’s, it’s an it’s an AI, like, can you observe enough of? Can you take 300 episodes of us podcasting, and then recreate our voices and our personalities? I think we can come close enough for it to be both comforting and uncanny. Right? at now, now. It’ll say um, after every, you know, two sentences. It feels genuine. I don’t. Yeah. How do you how do you guys feel about that? Like, would you want that? Like in the Black Mirror episode, like, would you want to have a a, a facsimile for some of the facsimile right of a person have a copy? Around to interact with?

Lara Taylor 39:26
That is a very loaded question. There are times where I think about people have it. I don’t have a good right now. But I have I think two seconds of my mom’s voice that I can listen to on a video of my sister’s wedding. And when I was younger, I would watch it over and over and over and I got it got to a point where I was like, this is i This is not healthy anymore. I, I wouldn’t want a bot, I would want more of the actual person, right? Those actual memories. Same kind of thing with my my friend who passed like I have somewhere on hopefully something that still works a video of him singing creep in Dr. Girlfriend’s voice. And I can’t listen to creep anymore because of that. But I don’t have him actually being him. But sometimes I can hear in my head the way he would say something. Again, I would want more of those actual memories, not new memories with someone, some bot that is not the person. Yeah,

Marc Cuiriz 40:55
you know, that actually reminds me that this whole question and in your response, Laura actually reminds me of a movie that I had a watch for one of my classes when I was back in community college, it was called Marjorie. And in this movie, like, it’s, it’s around this older woman, she’s, I believe she’s suffering from Alzheimer’s, or some form of dementia. But the whole point of the movie was that she had this almost like AI that basically represented her husband, just like, as he was before he passed. So he was like a younger version, but he would talk like him, and to her like he was, he was real. And it would talk about all like, these different memories that she would recount. And you know, then he would go, like, he would incorporate that into his system, and then be able to retell those stories. And it’s almost like they were talking to the actual person. And then the movie goes on to incorporate her daughter, and like her, her husband, and like, kind of caring for her. And then ultimately, she passes and then the daughter now has the mom with her. And then eventually it goes on from there. But I think like what your answer is, I think something like that is sort of what you’re kind of looking for of like, having something that’s almost like the actual person and being able to then have actual conversations with them based on the memories and the information that you’re giving it. So it’s like having that person, but it’s curated to the way you remember them. And then they adjust themselves or change themselves to be almost like how you remember it, even if it’s, and in that case, it can kind of, I can definitely see how like, it would be like a nice reassurance thing, something that would be kind of nice. But I can also see that being a little weird, because then you are omitting a lot of things sometimes, because you just wanna remember the good parts of a person and not necessarily remember all the bad things. I think for me, personally, I think I’d want more of like the video game thing. Rather than, like a bot, or, like, essential,

Josué Cardona 43:23
what do you what do you mean by the video game thing,

Marc Cuiriz 43:25
so kind of like the idea of a ghost. I would like to hope that in the future, if I were to have a family having that much of a connection through gaming with my kids that something like that would carry that same impact, kind of like the player two thing where it’s like I’m playing the game with them or alongside them and they can still have those memories and keep that going. But that’s I just feel like that’s more me. As opposed to like a chat box or bot or an AI of any kind.

Josué Cardona 44:09
That doesn’t sound too different to me.

Link Keller 44:11
I think it’s distinct.

Josué Cardona 44:13
I think it is but this they’re related.

Lara Taylor 44:16
It’s interesting because it reminds me of Kayla sent me a couple of books about a necromancer. Reign of the Fallen is the first book and in the second book song of the dead. There is a crystal that someone says you can talk to people in the afterlife like literally this the series like you can, there are people that can raise the dead in the dead used to live with the living world. But something happens and then so there’s no access to this person. So someone sells this crystal that says you can talk to talk to people who are in who I’ve passed on. And it becomes obsessive and like, wanting to be with this person all the time. And eventually, the two people realize it’s my own thoughts feeding the crystal, it is not actually letting me talk to someone. It’s just my own thoughts, and not healthy thoughts, either. Like, why are you betraying this person that I loved and knew moving on that kind of thing? Because they literally see someone talking to the crystal and it’s their own that person’s voice coming out of the crystal. Interesting stuff that like, I don’t know. Like I said, I would rather have video recordings of the person things they actually touched and did I still have my PlayStation three and it has twice now died like that yellow bar of death. And I can’t bring myself to get rid of it. Because my friends like save files are all on that PlayStation. Do I do I want like a bot that can play his games with me? No.

Josué Cardona 46:32
I like my mom is terminally ill right now. And I’ve thought about oh, like I can, I can do like a story core thing with her right? And just record ourselves having conversations and stuff. I don’t know if she wants to do that. And I’m not sure if I want to. Because I’m not sure if I know why exactly. I used to I don’t know if I think this anymore. But I used to go to places. And like, I didn’t want to take pictures. And I was like, I’m only here for a limited time. I want to kind of take it in and not through a screen. And I want to have the experience. As I’ve gotten much, much older, like Lara, I think about how, like, Man, I kind of wish I would have had, you know, recorded some things more than others. And I don’t know, like two of you are married, you know, Like What do you what would you want to preserve? Because I think that this idea of having an interactive version of person, even if it’s we know it’s not true, some kind of replica, Keanu Reeves I’ve never seen this movie we can always has a movie where his whole family dies. And he’s like, a scientist, and he’s trying to recreate them as Androids and stuff. It’s like,

Lara Taylor 48:07
and we see that was Superman too. Right?

Josué Cardona 48:10
What do you mean? what

Lara Taylor 48:11
his Fortress of Solitude. His parents are like recordings, interactive recordings.

Josué Cardona 48:18
super advanced. Right?

Lara Taylor 48:19
Exactly.

Josué Cardona 48:20
In a way like, but it’s not them. Right. And but just the idea of like, you don’t want to, I mean, in his case, like he never met them.

Lara Taylor 48:28
he never met them so he doesn’t know. Yeah, it’s either some glimpse of what they could what they were. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 48:34
And that’s actually kind of cool. I’m pro that. But like having known someone for a long time, like, I don’t know, do I want to record and preserve the person. But again, in the interactive version, I think it’s just like a fear of how can I live without this person? I need to have something right. Like I can’t do this alone. It feels I’m imagining a lot of that is that more than just, oh, be cool to have, you know, a version of you to chat with every now and then. That would just make me more sad. I think. Not that there’s anything wrong with being sad and remembering someone.

Lara Taylor 49:17
And also not wrong with anyone who would want something like that. No, two people grieve the same way. And for me, it’s one way for you it’s another for someone else. It’s another this there are times where I’d say I would give anything to be able to have another conversation, say a certain thing with somebody. can I? no. because even if you bring them back in this like aI form, it’s not them.

Josué Cardona 49:48
Yeah,

Link Keller 49:49
this is why I think the death positive movement is so important because I think this is such important questions to have, and conversations to have with your loved ones is to talk about the ways that they want to be remembered and the ways that they would want you to carry on their legacy. And the ways that you want to be remembered and you want your legacy to be carried on. Because like you said, it’s it’s different for everybody. It’s such a personal thing. It’s important to have these conversations, because those are often the the hard questions you have after somebody has died is like, well, what what would they have wanted? Am I doing the right thing? Would they like that I’m grieving this way? Or would they be like, Come on, get it together? Do this other thing?

Lara Taylor 50:42
And then there’s the big question about is it for them? Or is it for you? Right? Is the remembrance for them? Are you honored supposed to only honor them? Or is it also about you and your experience and how you’re going on after they’re gone? Probably a little room for both.

Link Keller 51:03
Functionally, it’s just for the still living person. but, asking those questions help you yeah

Lara Taylor 51:09
people like wrap that wrap themselves in guilt doing

Link Keller 51:12
asking those, asking people those questions, helps you understand them better. And, in my case, feel closer. It’s been many years since I’ve done this, but pre pandemic when my friend group and I would have a yearly friends giving in, I want to say 2018 is when I started my um “super fun Friendsgiving project” which is where I brought advanced directives, I printed up a whole bunch of them. And I was like, Okay, maybe this is this is a little bit too formal and structured. And so I ended up I made like doodled out a little like loosey goosey Advanced Directive where it’s talking about, like, if something happens to you, like, what do you want to happen? What do you want to happen to your body? What things do you feel are important and had everybody sit down at the Friendsgiving table? Before eating is like, well,

Lara Taylor 52:16
I’m thankful we’re here together, Let’s talk about what we want to do when we die.

Link Keller 52:22
I’m so thankful to be alive in this space with you. But just in case, you’re not here next year. What are you into, but it was actually a really, really great conversation, especially because at that Friendsgiving is like, there were several people who were just married or just engaged and getting to watch these couples sort of talk it out and, and share with friends

Lara Taylor 52:47
wait what you want that??

Link Keller 52:49
and to like, you know, one friend said to the other, like, Hey, I know if I die first, between the two of us, I know that, like it’s gonna be really, really hard for you to cope. And so I’m actually I would want this other person in my family to take care of these certain things. So you wouldn’t have to worry about that. And having them be like, Wow, thank you, like, you understand me. And thank you for for acknowledging that aspect. And making it clear to me, so I know who to talk to. If you die first. Everybody’s like, fingers crossed, I go first. But I think that that was like one of the My fondest memories is having this conversation about like, you know, how, how do you want to die? Not how do you want to die? But like, how do your do you want your death to go? How do you want people to process your things and memorialize you what kind of music do you think people would play at your memorial? And I think that that’s an important question conversation to have. And I think Josué Maybe that might be part of why it feels different with your mom is because she’s terminal. And you know that and so it’s it’s not like a fun hypothetical.

Lara Taylor 52:51
ha ha funny

Link Keller 53:06
or like, hey, wouldn’t it be fun? Like, let me record you telling that you know, that story about your grandparents that I think is really funny. It’s like looming?

Josué Cardona 54:24
yeah

Link Keller 54:24
and that that change that changes the vibe dont it?

Josué Cardona 54:29
But it’s funny because my mom, we just went through the legit Advanced Directive at the hospital recently.

Link Keller 54:36
nice

Josué Cardona 54:36
And that was, that was an experience. But my mom and I have been talking about her death since I was very little. She’s been sick for a long time. So it’s one of those things where like, I’m pretty sure what she wants and how she wants to do it. So she was pretty anxious and my two sisters were one of them more anxious than the other. So it was like the words weren’t getting through. And so I kept Translating to the, like the social worker at the hospital. Like, I’m pretty sure this is what my mom wants to do. My mom was there to like, confirm, you know, I was like, Mom, this is what it means. I want to just double check this is this is that. And yeah, we’re respecting her wishes. But But I don’t think we’ve ever talked about how she wants to be remembered. y’know like, like, yeah, record me or do this. I Remember my grandmother, her mom really wanted to, I think it was at the beginning of when she was getting Alzheimer’s. She She wanted her family history recorded, not just like hers, but her family history recorded. And she made basically like a scrapbook of the history of her family. And, and we helped her with it. And it was like really important for her to leave that legacy behind. I haven’t really thought about that. I don’t know, maybe I don’t have kids. I’m currently not in like a serious relationship. I’m not there’s, there’s you know, you guys are like my family. But I haven’t thought about you know? I don’t know, we’ve never had that those conversations. I don’t Think about it much. Yeah. How do you all want to? Do you ever think about that, like, what you want to leave behind. So

Link Keller 56:23
before we get into personal aspects, I do want to reference I saw a tiktok the other day, that was this guy who he goes out to like coffee shops and diners and stuff. And when he sees little old ladies out, he walks up to them and he says, I would like to buy your meal. And they’re always like, no, no, no. Why? Why would don’t do why No. And he says, that was one of the things I loved doing for my grandmother. And she died in this is my way of remembering her is being able to treat people the way that I was able to treat her. And I thought that was such a wonderful way of carrying on a tradition. And having that be the thing that you carry on throughout your own life is not necessarily the recordings or the letters or or art, which I think is all very important. But I think that the shared experiences is the most important in that that’s the thing that gets carried on.

Josué Cardona 57:21
I read something recently about how like, the in a relationship, the joy really comes from the loving and not from the being loved. It’s like it’s the act of you going through that. That is truly the most important or the the part that affects you the most we think about it as the other way. But it’s like if the the desire and the ability of the to do something like that, right. Like, I didn’t lose my my my grandmother paying for my lunch. I missed the experience of me treating her. So how can I keep doing that? How can I? How can I have that relationship with someone else? How can I keep in a way honoring them but still, like also giving? Yeah,

Link Keller 58:14
it was in the in the Tiktok That guy said that one of one of the women that he did that too. When he said that to her she burst into tears because she had just recently lost a grandson who was about the same age as him. And he did that for her and so it was like this total beautiful matching moment where they found each other and were able to have this moment to both memorialize the people that they had lost, but also connect with other people they exist with currently. i uh That’s that’s some tear jerker stuff.

Josué Cardona 58:46
Yeah. Yeah.

Marc Cuiriz 58:50
you’re making me get in my feels.

Link Keller 58:52
I apologize for interrupting you before please. How would you like to be remembered?

Marc Cuiriz 58:57
You know, that’s actually probably the only thing about my eventual death that I haven’t really given much thought to. I’ve, when Alyssa and I were starting to date and everything you know, as as the relationship got more serious. We we’ve talked about it. We’ve joked about it to about like what has happened and I always make the joke that like, oh, well statistically, I’m probably gonna go first. And plus, given my my diet and the way I live my life didn’t know it doesn’t help my case.

Josué Cardona 59:38
Your affinity for burnout.

Marc Cuiriz 59:40
Exactly. To just run myself to, to the brim of nothing. But I think for me, I at least for those around me, I do don’t want them to be sad. Like, I know, that’s a very hard thing to ask for. But I don’t like when I do die, I don’t want people to be distraught, I don’t want people to be like, in that sense of of it, I want it to be more of the celebration of what I’ve done. So if I’ve made any sort of lasting impact on those around me and those that I care about my family, I’d want that to be some to be the core subject. And the core focal point of my passing would be, these are the things that I’ve done. And if I’ve helped somebody out, or I made a lasting impact on somebody like, I would want that to be the things that are brought up and remembered. And I’m kind of like the same way, Josué, we’re, I’m not one to really take the pictures, I would much rather be in the moment. And I think that’s just my personal standpoint is things, for the most part, are not made to be permanent. And I feel like we as humans, we’re striving to try to make things permanent, which is why like we had, like, you were talking about earlier with, like wanting to record people’s last words. And now we have, you know, movies and all these things to immortalize individuals who have passed. But to me, I’d much rather be more about the memories and the experiences and the stories that I’ve either told, or I’ve helped create with people. That I think to me makes a lasting impression. And maybe it’s just my own naive mind here, my own young mind here. But I’ve always had this, at least to me, I’ve always felt like I’ve been very comfortable with the idea of death and dying. I don’t think I’ve had I’ve also never really had anybody particularly close to me pass since I was like, 10 years old. So I don’t I don’t know if maybe that answer would change of let’s say, like, my, I would have find out that my mom or my dad or even or to, you know, suddenly pass or anything like that, but I just, I’m okay with it. Like, I’ve accepted it that I’m gonna go at some point. So there’s no point in me trying to be scared of it. Or trying to obviously fight it in any sort of way. It’s just like, You know what, if it comes, it comes, and that’s okay, I’ve lived I’m doing my that’s why I tried to do my best to live my life now. The way that I the best way that I can, so that way, in the event something happens. It’s not like oh, I could have done this differently should have done that differently. Or, this that or the other. It’s, I did the best with what was given. And I can only help that that was an at least to me, that’s that’s good enough. So that’s my own personal take on what would happen if I were to die?

Link Keller 1:03:25
I do. I do want to point out that even as media makes this stuff last longer, it is not immortalized. Those Those early phonograph wax cylinders. I am certain a vast majority are gone lost a lot of early film from the teens and 20s gone forever. A lot of early

Lara Taylor 1:03:54
teens and 20s of the 1900s

Link Keller 1:03:56
of the 1900’s Well, a lot of early Facebook stuff is gone.

Lara Taylor 1:04:02
It’s true. Who knows what’s gonna happen to everyone’s Twitter stuff?

Link Keller 1:04:06
That’s a very current thing. But yeah, this stuff allows it to last longer, but nothing is forever. And so I just I just wanted to touch on that. It’s on my mind because my my friend Hanna, who’s here in this box that says bone powder on it, because I find that very funny. It’s got her ashes inside. She died at the end of 2019. I miss her dearly. And her mom was talking to me recently and told me that like the her Facebook page was finally like, shut down. And so that, you know, the pictures that were saved on there are gone now, and how she was kind of trying to cope with that, where it’s like she didn’t have full access to them. So it’s only the things that were marked public that she could still access, but then the page wasn’t there anymore. And so she’s like, it’s been kind of tough to let go of this other piece of her now, like, we’re gonna be letting go of pieces of her for the rest of our lives. That’s how it works.

Josué Cardona 1:05:20
So Facebook has a policy, like,

Link Keller 1:05:23
it does have a memorializing process, but it’s not so straightforward.

Josué Cardona 1:05:30
Yeah.

Lara Taylor 1:05:31
The second you said that I went to go check and see if my friends Facebook was still around. And it is and that was before the memorializing process.

Marc Cuiriz 1:05:39
Yeah, I actually was thinking something about that on the radio, and some people like called in, and we’re talking about it and supposedly, even with you set somebody to like be your person to memorialize everything, if you were to pass, the access that you’re given is very restrictive, the only way you’re going to have full on access is if they give you your their password. Other than that, it’s really just here you can make a post and do and make something to memorialize it, all that stuff. But like you can’t go through the photos, can’t really go through messages or anything like that. It’s just it’s very, very basic and very restrictive. So there really isn’t a whole lot you can do

Link Keller 1:06:23
and the process changes over time. Like, you know, how early profiles were set up is different than how current profiles are set up and how that information is saved on Facebook and has changed over time. And so anytime something changes, there’s always a chance that things will get lost. Maybe retrievable, maybe not. But yeah, I do. I do think it is important to take photos and write down little notes of stuff. I think it’s more important to experience the thing in the moment. But those those little bits are useful for you like to look back on your own life and see that stuff. Yeah, I miss Hanna I miss watching Great British baking show with her. And when this last season ended, I was mad that I couldn’t text her and shout about how the girl that I thought was really cute won and was like it was absolutely Hanna’s type and felt like she would have been your favorite too. And I don’t get to share that with her. And it’s bums me out. But I have people to share it with now. And that’s nice. And I value it greatly.

Josué Cardona 1:07:50
is Hanna, the friend that you interviewed?

Link Keller 1:07:55
interviewed?

Josué Cardona 1:07:56
for a podcast?

Link Keller 1:07:57
oh, Yes, yes. And that’s on my laptop, which does still turn on, did check recently. But I have still not been able to sit down and listen to that recording. it might break me

Josué Cardona 1:08:08
I’ve been thinking about that this entire time while I was thinking about that, because I think at first, right, like, I wonder if there will come a day when and maybe it will, maybe it won’t, right? Like, it will break me because like you’re you’re listening to a conversation with her. Maybe one day, it’s like, I miss her. And I want to go through that right? And like and like, maybe relive that interaction? And because that’s just one example. But I think about that, but a lot of stuff. It’s like, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t want to capture certain things. But now like, I know, I’m old enough from like, human memory is garbage. And I don’t remember that thing anymore. And I wish I did have have that there’s an episode of, of Doctor Who Maisie Williams plays a character that eventually lives, like is becomes immortal. And in. So she’s getting two episodes a month, you see her after? I don’t know, hundreds 1000s of years that she has been immortal. She has a library. So she’s been journaling all those years. And she talks about how she does that because she still has a human memory. And she’s had so many families and people and adventures and things that she can’t remember too far back because our memory can only do so much and over time memories degrade and they change. And so part of me does wish that I had captured more stuff. But I still don’t know. I don’t know what the future know how I’ll feel in the future.

Link Keller 1:09:47
My personal philosophy is that aspect is what makes life meaningful, is that you only get bits

Josué Cardona 1:09:57
its passing

Link Keller 1:09:58
it’s passing and it’s ephemeral. And you get what you get

Josué Cardona 1:10:04
Yeah,

Link Keller 1:10:04
and that’s why it’s cherishing

Josué Cardona 1:10:07
Yeah. That’s why I’m like a very big like, one on one person, like, Let’s go have lunch and just have a deep conversation and like, really just like, let the world disappear. And let me let’s have this moment. I don’t know when we’ll have it again. You know, when we’ll have the chance again, it’s like kind of like, maximize it. Not not to have a drag, right. But like, like, not make it last forever. But let’s like, let’s, let’s get the most out of it right now.

Link Keller 1:10:37
I’ve been watching a lot of drop out TV in the background while I play Pokemon. And they did an episode where they showed bits that had been cut from other episodes. And this this one specific bit was cut from the episode because it didn’t really fit the vibe of the rest of the episode. But the show is game changers. Each episode is a different game show. That’s that’s the premise is that each one is different. But this bit was the host asked one of the contestants how, how often do you see your parents? He’s like, you know, once or twice a year. He’s like, and how old are your parents and then he did the math on it. And he’s like, so statistically speaking, you have 26 more meetings, meetups with your family, I want you to stare into the, into the camera and count from one to 26 the the game was Don’t cry. I’m appreciative that they cut it from the episode because it didn’t fit the vibe of the rest of the episode. But I thought that that was probably a pretty impactful moment for that contestant to have to stare into camera and counts. And he’s like, slow, slow down, you’re counting like really think about each of these times that you’re going to your family’s house to see them. Now just like woooo

Josué Cardona 1:12:00
I did that to my older sister a couple of months ago, because she kept delaying going to see my mom and I’m like, don’t wait, you’re gonna regret it. And then I asked her, How often do you see her? She’s like, I don’t want to see mom. But every three years, I was like, well, they told her she has about five years to live. That’s like one or two more times. Yeah, one or two more times, if you keep that cadence, she just started bawling. So you didn’t think of it that way?

Link Keller 1:12:34
No. People, people do a lot of trying to not think that way. And I think that that’s a coping mechanism for what I said before, the two major facets of grief is a world without that person anymore. And also you will die one day, and it’s like, how many more meetings do you have? How many? How many more? Sit down for a little coffee chat? times do you have with that person that you care about? Yeah,

Lara Taylor 1:13:02
you really don’t know.

Link Keller 1:13:03
You don’t nobody does.

Josué Cardona 1:13:06
There’s, um, by the way it worked. On my sister,

Lara Taylor 1:13:11
good job

Josué Cardona 1:13:12
she’s visited her three times and for multiple weeks at a time. And there’s there’s this blog post, right, right, kind of get that idea for the first time. From Wait, but why? And I think it’s called a tail end. Right? And it’s all about he says in the article, like, it turns out that when I graduated from high school, I had already used up 93% of my in person, parent time. And I’m enjoying the last 5% of that time, we’re in the tail end. Because like once you move out, you see them way, way less. So it’s again, when you look at that he has visuals and stuff. We should put this in the show notes. And I’ll share it.

Link Keller 1:13:55
I don’t remember

Lara Taylor 1:13:56
that’s why I was so I was this is why I was so happy when Nina and I moved bought a house like having my dad here everyday working on the house. He is in this house. However long he has left, right?

Josué Cardona 1:14:12
Yeah. Yeah.

Link Keller 1:14:16
How do you want to be remembered Josué?

Josué Cardona 1:14:20
I, I if someone wants to remember me, I would happily help them. Create that. Whatever it is that they want. I have no preference. Somebody wants to make a chatbot let me know what to do if someone wants to create a likeness

Lara Taylor 1:14:43
all they need is all our podcasts, bam

Josué Cardona 1:14:46
anything.

Marc Cuiriz 1:14:47
Yeah, I’m already right there.

Josué Cardona 1:14:49
Yeah, like I wouldn’t want to deny that to anybody because I think that would be I don’t know, I think it’s kind of fucked up. It’s like, what? It’s something I can give you if you want on it, you know, same thing with like, oh, I don’t care what happens with my body I don’t care where I’m buried. I don’t care. Any of that stuff

Lara Taylor 1:15:09
you could be the AI, that become sentient. And like, destroys the world,

Josué Cardona 1:15:09
it’s still not me

Lara Taylor 1:15:09
kills us all.

Lara Taylor 1:15:09
It’s still not me. But you know, I would have Yeah, make me an AI.

Josué Cardona 1:15:12
Um, it’ll still feel like Josué is just giving me shit.

Josué Cardona 1:15:24
If someone feels strongly enough to want to keep some version of me. So whether that’s a picture recording or AI replica, I would do that. But personally, I don’t. I don’t care.

Link Keller 1:15:40
When when you said remember me? I thought of that episode of Futurama. Where they end up in Egypt building pyramids, and Bender has them build a giant Bender that breathes fire and yells “remember me! Remember me!” That’s what I thought of. So that’s what I’m gonna do for you if you die before me.

Josué Cardona 1:16:05
Yeah,

Lara Taylor 1:16:05
and see, I pictured Coco.

Marc Cuiriz 1:16:09
Yeah, I went to Coco.

Lara Taylor 1:16:11
I went to coco. Remember me? Remember me? Yeah. I don’t know Josué? I don’t know. AI Josué.

Josué Cardona 1:16:22
Is that what you want? Lara whatever you want

Lara Taylor 1:16:24
after you die? i dunno

Marc Cuiriz 1:16:26
Yeah, listen, I already get enough shit right now. I don’t need any more after you’re gone.

Lara Taylor 1:16:31
We say that now. But if, if anything, were to happen to Josué we would want more

Marc Cuiriz 1:16:35
Oh, 100% I’d be I’d go back to listen to just the episodes like this one where I’m just giving shit for, you know my silly remarks. And I’m like, yep. It’s like you never left

Link Keller 1:16:50
remembered for your shit giving

Josué Cardona 1:16:53
Would would? Would it bother you to receive like a letter, or delayed email afterwards? Marc giving you shit apart for what you said on episode 342 of the Geek Therapy podcast,

Marc Cuiriz 1:17:10
I would actually be more amazed at the fact that you took the time to remember the episode. And remember what it is that you’re giving me shit about to then write a letter or an email that will then be sent at a later date about it. I’d be more amazed that you were that dedicated.

Lara Taylor 1:17:28
I could literally do it right now and send gmail you can send it like, I don’t know how far in advance but

Josué Cardona 1:17:37
I wouldn’t mind us spending the time and creating a wiki with all the time they’ve given Marc shit.

Link Keller 1:17:43
oh my god

Josué Cardona 1:17:45
So I can easily access access it

Marc Cuiriz 1:17:48
just that had that addition to the GT library.

Josué Cardona 1:17:52
It is it does have the capabilities to do that.

Link Keller 1:17:58
Lara, how do you want to be remembered?

Lara Taylor 1:18:02
That’s interesting that like, in general, I want people to remember, like, whatever meant something to them, right? That’s the best. The thing I think I take away death has been something on at least the backburner of my mind since I was 11 years old. And also something that terrifies me and I don’t think a lot about certain things I like I know. There’s been like thoughts of like, there have been people at my camp who have had their ashes laid it at redwood tree stumps so that it goes up into the tree and all of that and I would hope that there would be some memory of me there like a plaque or something. But I don’t know. I think about I’d want people to remember the meaningful times the fun times. My mom’s stepmom when I was little. I used to call her Granny cereal and she was my whole family’s from Wichita. She wanted us to sing ding dong the witch is dead at her funeral

Link Keller 1:19:12
haha i love that

Lara Taylor 1:19:13
she she passed away last year, early this year, and her daughter did not have a service. So we didn’t get to do it, but I sang it for granny cereal. Her real name is Celia. I couldn’t say Celia when I was little

Link Keller 1:19:28
that’s really cute

Lara Taylor 1:19:31
Then she started calling herself granny Froot Loops. She was a character but I would hope that I have some I come up with something as brilliant as that. Like there’s got to be something I can come up with like sing this thing or or watch this movie or whatever is something that has meaning. But honestly, I just want people to have good memories of me. Bad ones are okay too. But mostly the good ones

Marc Cuiriz 1:20:05
I’d like to like to add a little last minute thing. I think for a service for me, I want everybody to wear Assassin’s robes. Hoods up, everything is

Josué Cardona 1:20:16
recite the creed

Marc Cuiriz 1:20:17
Exactly. And I want the location for the service to be in like a medieval type place with the torches and everything. And I want it to be a send off like that,

Josué Cardona 1:20:28
like Ezio’s villa?

Marc Cuiriz 1:20:29
Yeah, kind of like brotherhood, except it’s not going to be an induction ceremony. It’s going to be you know, my service. But I want everybody to just stand there with these robes in the hood.

Lara Taylor 1:20:40
It’s a cheaper option than flying everyone to like Italy, there is a medieval castle in Napa.

Marc Cuiriz 1:20:48
No, that’s, I mean, I just want the location to be like, you could literally make a like a set. And it just looks like it. I

Lara Taylor 1:20:58
Marc this this place I’m talking about is like a, like an actual like they built the castle like they did in medieval times. Supposedly,

Josué Cardona 1:21:05
Marc is trip instead of sending them around? Can we just can we do parkour?

Marc Cuiriz 1:21:11
No, see, that’s gonna be afterwards that that’s how you get to, to wherever. That’s how you get to like the part afterwards.

Link Keller 1:21:19
I appreciate you not asking us to assassinate any political figures on your behalf.

Lara Taylor 1:21:24
Like, are we gonna have to cut off our finger?

Marc Cuiriz 1:21:26
No, see? Because what’s gonna happen is that when you get to like the, you know, what happens after the service, is you’re all going to get your assignments because, you know, we’re going to take down capitalism.

Link Keller 1:21:37
Hell yeah.

Marc Cuiriz 1:21:40
But no, no finger sacrifice will need to be required. your blades to your blades will all be modified.

Josué Cardona 1:21:47
Cool. Okay, it’s a plan. Link, would you like to share?

Link Keller 1:21:57
Oh, don’t turn me into an AI. I hate that. I would like to be remembered by people taking the remnants of my life. My stuff, the memories they have of times that we shared together, the art and podcast episodes and things that I’ve written. And I hope when they play a future Zelda game that I don’t get to play that they think of me.

Lara Taylor 1:22:33
I think about that a lot with my friend James is kind of thing where he made me read the Game of Thrones books, like the song of fire, ice and fire. And I was sad. He was so excited that the show was going to start and so every every week when I watched, I thought of him.

Josué Cardona 1:22:49
Yeah. Link every time I click on a hyperlink, or dead link or anything like that, I will think of you,

Link Keller 1:22:59
Ah, my master plan it’s all coming together

Lara Taylor 1:23:02
you have to ask where’s the link in an email,

Link Keller 1:23:06
per my last email, the link was already embedded. aww, The link was embedded.

Josué Cardona 1:23:17
Well celebrate us if when were gone, if you want to celebrate the people that you love, or care about, or I’ve been meaningful to you when they’re gone if you want. You don’t need media for that. But it can be helpful to have even pictures and stuff. Again, human memory is kinda garbage, but it sure is something that we we can affect we can continue to affect people when people we’ve never met people who aren’t born yet. In the future. At least some of us will. Some of you will. Thank you for joining us on this somber episode of GT radio. join the conversation tell us tell us you know, do you want to Link AI? how do you want to be remembered?

Lara Taylor 1:24:20
cuz you’re not getting one?

Josué Cardona 1:24:22
I mean, I think we have enough data. And yeah. Join the conversations with the community and our community spaces. Links are in the show notes. Remember to spend time with your loved ones and make the most out of it, and geek out and do good

Link Keller 1:24:47
mmbyebye future corpses.

Josué Cardona 1:24:50
Geek Therapy is a 501 C three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture. To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geek therapy.org

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Characters / Media

• Jason David Frank (Tommy) / Mighty Morphin Power Rangers
• Kevin Conroy / Batman
• Chadwick Boseman (T’Challa) / Wakanda Forever
• Corey Montes (Finn Hudson) / Glee
• Robin Williams
• Michael Jackson
• Princess Diana
• Robbie Coltrane (Hagrid) / Harry Potter series
• Richard Harris (Dumbledore) / Harry Potter series
• Carrie Fisher (Princess Leia) / Star Wars series
• Spencer (2021)
• William Hartnell (The Doctor) / Doctor Who
• Black Mirror “Be Right Back”
• Marjorie Prime (2017)
• Reign of the Fallen / Song of the Dead by Caitlin Seal
• Replicas (2018)
• Superman
• Game Changers / Dropout TV
• https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/12/the-tail-end.html
• Coco (2017)
• Legend of Zelda game series
• A Song of Ice and Fire book series

Themes / Topics

Conversation Topics:

* Cultural representation
* Death
* Difficult emotions
* Family
* Fear
* Love
* Death Positive
* Memorialization / tributes

Relatable Experience:

* Clarity/Understanding
* Coming of age/Getting older
* Death
* Fear/Anxiety
* Health (Physical)
* Loss (other than death)
* New Life Event (New Rules)
* Grief

Questions? Comments? Discuss this episode on the GT Forum.

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Links / Social Media

Check out the GT Network: network.geektherapy.com

GT Forum: forum.geektherapy.org

GT Discord: geektherapy.com/discord

GT Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/geektherapy

Find us at www.GeekTherapy.org | @GeekTherapy | Lara: @GeekTherapist | Link: @CHICKENDINOSAUR | Josué: @JosueACardona

Ask us anything through the Question Queue and we’ll answer on the show: geektherapy.org/qq

Join the Conversation!

Who is a celebrity whose death greatly impacted you? How do you want to be remembered?

The post Gone but not Forgotten appeared first on Geek Therapy.