267. Susan Fowler — Why Motivating People Doesn’t Work

The Game Changing Attorney Podcast with Michael Mogill

Think you know how to motivate people? Think again.

Susan Fowler, renowned leadership consultant, and the best-selling author of Why Motivating People Doesn’t Work…and What Does has spent the last two decades refining the application of motivation science in Fortune 50 companies to small organizations in almost every industry imaginable around the world.

In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Susan will teach you:

• Why attempting to motivate people is a losing proposition
• The psychological needs that all high-performing team members have
• How to create a working environment that enables you and your team to thrive

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Show Notes:

02:51 – Why Susan Fowler wrote Why Motivating People Doesn’t Work… and What Does

04:47 – The real definition of motivation

05:31 – Why attempting to motivate people is a losing proposition, no matter your resources

06:49 – The difference between optimal and sub-optimal motivation

10:19 – Why certain incentives can be the “junk food” of motivation

13:45 – The three psychological needs that all people have (autonomy, relatedness, and competence)

19:39 – The importance of providing choices

22:40 – How to foster the physiological need for connection in a working environment

24:11 – How to determine what your and your team members’ values are

27:46 – What to do when your values as a leader are not aligned with your team members’ values

30:18 – Why all of our values are subject to evolution

31:00 – How to make your team more competent

34:48 – Why asking someone “What motivates you?” is a bad idea

38:22 – Why money does motivate people, but not in the way that you think

43:41 – Why leaders should ask what they want for their people (not just what they want from them)

47:33 – How to overcome “Quiet Quitting” and create an environment where people want to stay

50:44 – What being a game changer means to Susan Fowler

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Links & Resources

• Why Motivating People Doesn’t Work… and What Does by Susan Fowler
• YouTube
• B.F. Skinner
• Operant Conditioning
• Master Your Motivation: Three Scientific Truths for Achieving Your Goals by Susan Fowler
• Self-determination theory
• Dr. Edward Deci
• Dr. Richard Ryan
• IBM
• Garry Ridge
• Dr. Jacques Forest
• Drea Zigarmi
• Mark Cuban
• Anne Brafford
• The Prevalence of Substance Use and Other Mental Health Concerns Among American Attorneys
• Binge Drinking by Occupation Groups among Currently Employed U.S. Adults
• 2022 Report on the State of the Legal Market: Despite a strong year, numerous & growing challenges confront law firms
• Institute For Well-Being In Law
• McKinsey & Company: Winning back your workers

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Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more.

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If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like:

• #101 Dr. Ayelet Fishbach – Get It Done: Surprising Lessons From the Science of Motivation
• #97 Liz Wiseman – Impact Players: How to Take the Lead, Play Bigger, and Multiply Your Impact
• #230 AMMA – How to Achieve Bigger Goals