Navigating the Digital Jungle: Critical Thinking & Equity Conversations in Higher Ed with Eric Stoller

SA Voices From the Field

In this episode of "Student Affairs Voices From the Field," Dr. Jill Creighton welcomes Dr. Eric Stoller, the VP of Marketing and Digital Content at territorium, for a conversation about the evolving landscape of higher education and the role of technology in student affairs. They discuss various trends in higher education technology and how it impacts both academic and student affairs divisions.

Dr. Stoller traces his journey from his early experiences as a marketing specialist at the University of Illinois, Chicago, to becoming a respected thought leader in the higher education technology space. He emphasizes how technology has become an integral part of the entire higher education experience, noting the importance of CRM tools, mobile apps, and the shift toward hybrid and remote learning during the pandemic.

The conversation delves into the changing value of higher education credentials and the importance of measuring and verifying outcomes related to critical thinking, skills development, and employability. Dr. Stoller discusses the growing focus on micro-credentials, badges, and the idea of a learner's "digital wallet" to showcase skills and experiences.

They also touch upon the need for interoperability in higher education technology and how data and analytics will play a more significant role in student affairs, helping institutions understand student needs and provide better support.

The episode concludes with a discussion of the evolving role of student affairs in helping students navigate diverse pathways to success, emphasizing the need for personalized support and pathways for learners, regardless of whether they complete a degree.

This episode sheds light on the transformative impact of technology on higher education and how student affairs professionals can adapt to these changes to better serve students in an evolving landscape.

Please subscribe to SA Voices from the Field on your favorite podcasting device and share the podcast with other student affairs colleagues!

Transcript

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:02]:

Welcome to Student Affairs Voices From the Field, the podcast where we share your student affairs stories from fresh perspectives to seasoned experts. This is season nine on transitions in Student Affairs. This podcast is brought to you by NASPA. And I'm Dr. Jill Creighton. She her hers your essay, Voices from the Field host today on SA Voices, I'm pleased to bring you a conversation with Eric Stoller. Eric is the VP of Digital at territorium with over 20 years experience in higher education and education technology. As a Strategist writer and thought leader, he founded and led a global higher education consultancy from 2010 to 2019 and created the Student Affairs and Technology blog for Inside Higher Ed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:00:46]:

Previous Ed Tech roles include leadership positions at list. Ed tech element 451 and Gecko engage. Earlier in his career, he was an academic advisor at Oregon State University and a marketing specialist at the University of Illinois, Chicago. Eric. Earned an associate's degree, a BA in Communications and an EDM. In College student Services Administration. Eric, welcome to SA Voices.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:01:07]:

Thanks so much for having me, Jill. Great to be here.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:09]:

It's really great to see you. For our listeners, Eric and I met, I'm going to say 2005 maybe.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:01:16]:

I think dinosaurs were just still roaming the earth. Yeah, it would have been 2004. Five Oregon State University in Corvallis, Oregon.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:01:25]:

I think we were just escaping the trends of dial up internet and smartphones weren't smart yet in that time. So Eric and I actually worked together in the Office of Student Conduct when we were graduate students. So it's really lovely to see old friends and see careers blossom. And I'm really looking forward to talking about your transition today because I think you have a really unique one for someone who received their master's in Higher Ed. So would love to start with if you could tell us about your current position. And we always like to begin with a good come up story. How did you get to your current seat?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:01:57]:

A good come up story, I love that. Well, so my current role is Vice President of Marketing and Digital Content at territorium, which is a global ed tech company that is all about bridging education to employability. And we'll probably get into that later on in the show. And it gets highly technical and I can't wait to dive into that. In terms of how I got into this seat, it is a long, winding story that started on a gravel road in Iowa, and I'm not going to bore your listeners with the full, you know, I went to community college, went to university. I thought I was kind of done with higher education. And then I actually started working at the University of Illinois at Chicago way back in the day in marketing and just loved the work. I was located within Student Services, and that's when I sort of first learned about what student affairs was even all about.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:02:42]:

And was, as I am today, still very much into technology back then. And even I remember calling up Kevin Krueger, who's now the executive director for NASPA or the president of NASA. I'm not sure the exact titles nowadays, but Kevin and I had a conversation when I was very new to the field, and I said to him, why is the information Technology knowledge community, as it was known then, why is it gone? Because they had just gotten rid of it. And his first thought or question know, who are you? And I said, yeah, I'm just new professional, kind of bothering this leader of this association, or at the time, I think he was the associate director. Anyway, I went out to Oregon State, as you referenced, and I got my master's degree in higher education. Worked in a variety of different areas from enrollment management, financial aid, registrars, kind of a stint at Student conduct, was an academic advisor. And then during that time when I was an academic advisor, I started writing for Inside Higher Ed. I started the Student Affairs and Technology blog and just loved that experience as a writer for Inside Higher Ed.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:03:41]:

And it was also at that time when I started getting invitations to go out and do some freelance work and consult for institutions and speak at events. So I stopped working full time for Oregon State and I became a consultant for nine years in the US, the UK and beyond, various global events and working with institutions all over the place. And the focus was all around digital engagement. This was when sort of social media was kind of coming into its own still and really focusing on how student affairs divisions could just transform what they were doing with all things digital. Because the origin story of student affairs is one that it was all about face to face, one on one experiences with students. And technology was seen because my Grad program, it was what, 2004, when I started, and technology was seen as this kind of gets in the way of that student experience. You fast forward to today, almost 20 years later, and the idea that technology would be separate from the student experience is something that people would never think about. It's really connected deeply.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:04:40]:

And so I had this nine year experience as a freelancer, and then I started working for a higher ed chatbot company that was based in the UK and Scotland and did that for a little while, went back to Freelancing, and then I worked for a higher ed CRM company. You're getting kind of a theme here in terms of my Ed tech experience, right? Sort of chat bot to CRM. And then we moved to the Netherlands in 2022 from the US. And so I was doing Freelancing again, and a connection of my wife, professional connection, started talking to me about this potential marketing role at territorium, and they were launching their kind of US presence. territorium as a company has its origins in Monterrey, Mexico, and we're all over Latin America in terms of providing testing and a learning experience platform as well as our comprehensive learner record. But we hadn't really had as much of a presence in the US. And so we launched this US team back in December of last year that's for listeners on the call. I can't even do the math now.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:05:42]:

Right? 2022. And so been with territorium since then and leading on all things marketing and digital combination of leading, strategy, producing, execution, go to market, a lot of things that are not part of our Master's degree program that Jill and I went through, but connected to both my undergraduate experience as a PR and marketing major. And then of course, my deep connections and network into higher education have kind of got me to this place.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:06:10]:

So I'm going to just do a quick backup to a terms definition. You mentioned CRM, which might not be a term that's familiar to those in Higher Ed. Can you define that for us?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:06:18]:

Of course. So this is where things really get interesting because as you know, every institution in the US kind of does things differently. If they're a college, they're a university, they're a community college. The structures, the systems, some institutions have divisions of student affairs, some have smaller sort of scale depending on their organization. But the one thing they all have in common is they all recruit students, they have admissions and they have recruitment. And whether they use a higher ed specific CRM, which is back in the day, it would have been a Customer Relationship Management tool, which is effectively how you keep track of who you're trying to recruit and communicate with them and engage them on a level from maybe they're a junior in high school or if they're an adult. Learner how you're connecting with those folks through a variety of communication vehicles like email, SMS or maybe a chat bot. How it's all interconnected.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:07:10]:

So there's the Gargantuan CRMs out there like Salesforce or I happen to be working for Element 451, which is a much smaller shop, but they have quite a few clients as well. That's the CRM. I think the interesting thing about being in Higher Ed is I always say that you live in an acronym soup because you've got all the associations for higher education, all the different tools and platforms. You've got the SIS, the Student Information System. I mentioned the Comprehensive Learner Record, which is shortened down to Clr, which is a record of skills and experiences and credentials for learners. That goes far beyond the transcript because it goes inside the classroom and outside the classroom. So that's the clr. And so, yeah, if we need to, we can have a glossary of Terms attached to this podcast.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:07:53]:

In terms of all the acronyms that I might mention, I think for Higher Ed pros, most of these things you're already familiar with, you just didn't know. That's what it was called in corporate land, but things you're quite familiar with. I think the one that we've been using lately is Slate in terms of our CRM for prospective students. It's quite a popular rising one right now. So you do know these things. You just maybe got a new term to associate with it.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:08:15]:

I think if you work in enrollment management, if you're in the admissions side, you're in these tools on a daily basis. I think it's one of those things if you're in student conduct or academic advising or every sort of functional area has its set of digital tools that it uses on a day to day basis. But when I was at Oregon State as an academic advisor, I was in banner every single day. And so that was the tool of choice. That's from Elusion. In terms of providers, I'll try not to too much name dropping, but I think that in terms of the Edtech universe, there's so many different providers because so many different functional areas require just different tools to help with the work that they're doing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:08:53]:

One of the reasons I was really looking forward to our conversation is because you can talk about transitions in the digital space. A lot of the conversations we've had this seasons are personal transitions in career, which you've certainly had. But I think one of the things you've always had your finger on the pulse of in higher Ed is how digital kind of arenas, the digital vertical for higher education has really changed and reshaped the way that we do the work in our campus based positions. So I'm wondering if you can talk to us a little bit about that process and what you've seen in terms of trends and bed tech field is really new 2030 years in terms of its boom. So any trends that you're seeing in terms of how educators are using these tools really well, yeah.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:09:34]:

I mean, I think it's always good, like you said, to kind of look back where things were. When I was writing for Inside Higher Ed, I remember going to EDUCAUSE a couple of different times. The annual Educause Conference, which is kind of a giant ed tech convention. And most of the providers back then, those events, they were very much focused on the academic experience side of things. There weren't a lot of providers that were doing things that would even slightly sort of go into the student affairs areas. And now you fast forward to today and Edtech providers are in kind of every single space within institutions. As we've already referenced, the CRM tools have become extremely important because with the approaching enrollment cliff for that traditionally aged population, which is kind of a loaded phrase anyway in terms of what is traditional, but that sort of 18 to 22 year old, that population of university, that's a decline. There's just not as many young people that will be going into higher education.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:10:33]:

And so the CRM becomes a tool that is even more important as you communicate, as you hone your message, as you try to showcase the value of your institution, of the degrees that students will receive and earn and other systems as well. I mean, it used to be the digital experience was much more based on the staff or administrators who were at their desk with a big screen and students would come to their office and they would sort of navigate a system on behalf of the student. And then mobile apps kind of really entered in in a meaningful way. And no longer are students sort of tethered to an individual and their desk and their office, but they can look things up on their phone and they can access a variety of services. They can ask questions to 24/7 chat bots. They can look at their course schedule. They can look at various activities and events on campus. Now, of course, when you said this, you referenced the question.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:11:29]:

You kind of framed it as on campus. I think what the pandemic did was it showcased the need to serve and support students who weren't necessarily going to be on campus, or at least accelerated. Maybe more of a hybridized environment where students were on campus for a portion of the time, but they were also on their computers at home because it used to be that all your lectures were in a big auditorium. And then the idea of the sort of the flip classroom came into play. Professors were recording their lectures and students could listen to a lecture at home and so that the discussion would actually happen when you went to the classroom. And then with the Pandemic, it sort of said, okay, everything's going to be remote for certain people. And it was interesting because you start thinking about how did student affairs serve learners, who historically student affairs would have been saying, okay, in res life, there's no such thing as remote. Students are actually physically located on campus.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:12:27]:

But then say, what about the other side of our institution that was serving adult learners or online only learners or people that were coming in for micro credentials, they were never going to set foot on campus. They maybe came once a year, if that. And so technology has really embedded itself throughout the entire higher education experience because the higher education experience has changed. It's such a blended, multimodal thing where students are learning through their phones, they are communicating like we are right now through zoom or other media like this because you don't have to be bound to a certain geography. You could be in Iowa and studying an institution in Oregon, or you could be in Berlin and studying at an institution in South Carolina. So the variety pack now and I think that's where I think back to our higher education master's program. And the fundamentals that we were taught were still very much constrained to a sort of model that was still constrained in some ways. It's like know, we were on a basketball court, for example, and we knew where the boundary lines were for everything, and we knew, like, okay, here's the two baskets, and we know how things work.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:13:39]:

But then all of a, you know, I live in Europe now imagine if that basketball court was transported to a football pitch, which is enormous in size and different boundaries and different scope and scale. And I think that's where higher education finds itself. It's having to, as a sort of nebulous thing, now recruit students that in the past might not have been recruited because, like I said, that enrollment decline for a certain demographic, and so all these technologies are really coming into their own. For instance, the territorium, one of the things that we've been really talking about a lot is this idea that why do people go to college? Why do people pay the bill? Why do the people get into debt? Most of us were not financially wealthy enough to just pay for school right away. You have to get a loan. You pay your student loan off over the course of a lifetime or however long it takes. And what's the value of higher education? Right? Yes. It's the experience.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:14:30]:

It's about giving back to your community. It's about access. But by and large, most people go to university because they want to improve their overall employability or their chances for a career that will perhaps lead to financial stability because that's why they're doing it. And higher ed, I think, for the longest time, hasn't really talked about that. We shy away from that. We shy away from the fact that people are going to get their BA in English, for instance, and they're going to get in $50,000 worth of debt. But they're doing it because they love writing, they love the work, they love the art. But at the same time, is there a connection to employment at the end of that journey, or are universities just leaving students in debt? And so I think that's where you may have heard people talk a lot about the skills based economy.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:15:16]:

And I went to community college for my first two years. I got my Associate of Arts. My brother, he went to the same community college. He got a two year technical degree. That's what he has, a technical degree. And he has done really well for himself career wise. And I think one of the things, when people hear the word skills based economy, they think, well, that's more technical or community college workforce based. But universities are really getting into that space now when it comes to micro credentials and badging and trying to sort out the sense of, okay, it's not just about a pretty campus.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:15:48]:

It's not just about a winning football team. It is about what's the direct correlation to you get this degree or you get this credential and it's going to have a direct impact on your success? Because right now I think there's something like 39 million Americans have some college but no degree, and yet that accompanies that with a ton of debt, right? So there's a lot of issues there. And so how do you take folks who have maybe some college but no degree and let them showcase the sort of skills that they have, even though they don't have the diploma, because they might have a transcript that shows that they've taken five classes, but at the same time, how do they show that to employers? Because employers look, traditionally, employers wanted to see the diploma or that you've earned your 40 year degree or you've earned your Master's or whatnot. And so I think that part of the things that higher ed has had in the past is, okay, we've kind of built this foundation of these are our core technologies. But I think there's this transition to, okay, what are some of those core technologies that might need to change, might need to evolve? Because if you're a registrar, for example, you need something more than just a transcript because you're no longer just awarding ABCDF, you are awarding micro credentials. You're giving badges away to students. Faculty members are sort of looking at, okay, my students are learning these skills during the course of this particular class, and now we're going to award them badges that never would have happened 510 years ago. And now you've got employers saying, hey, we are going to hire students based on these skills that they have that are verified by the institution.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:17:15]:

Those are really important points because what we're seeing is a transformation of the value of higher education that's not just US. Based, that's globally. Because when we look at what a degree means, I believe it means something extremely different to those of us working in the academy, to those folks that are outside of the academy looking to employ people who need individuals who can demonstrate critical thinking, problem solving skills, technical knowledge, all of those things. And that's part of what the degree is designed to do. But I would believe that, especially at a liberal arts institution like mine, we're teaching ways to think, not just facts and figures and things like that. And you need both. So the question is, how are we transitioning not only our offerings at the university as a whole from a credentialing perspective, but how are we also doing that in student affairs? And how can technology support those transitions for what the work needs to look like? So I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on that.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:18:12]:

Yeah, well, I think part of it has to do with the fact that because you mentioned critical thinking, critical thinking is a huge part of the experience of higher education and a lot of student affairs programs the underpinnings of those programs definitely includes critical thinking, equity conversations, cultural diversity conversations. And I think that all those aspects, they just weren't measured in the past. Right, so what did you actually learn throughout your experience that wasn't in the classroom? NASPA, for as long as I can remember, has always talked about learning reconsidered. Right. That learning happens throughout the experience of a student, regardless of where they are on campus, off campus, in a class, outside of the class. And so I think that is part of the work that student affairs is going to have to do going forward, because there's a lot of scrutiny right now, obviously, on institutional budgets and outcomes. And the two big R's, of course, are recruitment and retention. And student affairs plays a big part in both of those areas.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:19:08]:

And so I think that the student affairs side of things in terms of transforming kind of what was done to what is being done and what will continue to be done, is going to be verifying and measuring those outcomes so that there's a tangible way to sort of I mentioned badges earlier. How many student affairs divisions are awarding badges to students? You think a lot of times about badges is maybe coming from the academic affairs side of the house. I think that look at Career Services shops, look at the evolution of Career Services because like career centers, they have probably one of the most important roles at institutions. And yet for the longest time, not so much now, but for a long time it was, okay, I'm a junior or a senior, I'll go and talk to career services kind of at the end of my institutional experience before I graduate. And now you see Career Services, they're front loading their engagement with students. So they're at orientation, they're there at first year experience courses, and they're also working alongside employers to connect students to this idea that this is just a step in your journey and we're going to try to help you along. And so I think we're going to see a lot more student affairs divisions awarding badges and getting into the LMS, getting into the badge systems, either coming directly out of a clr or it comes from another provider. I think that's the other thing with this is Ed Tech providers have been very insular in the past.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:20:28]:

Like, we've got a platform and it only works with our platform. And so student data is kind of stuck in this database that's very proprietary and an organization called Oneed Tech, unless you're really deeply involved in sort of the Ed Tech space, you might not be aware of them. But one of the big facets of their work is interoperability sort of this idea that all these digital assets that students have are like Lego and that you can kind of plug and play them independently of a certain system. So, for example, if you have a digital wallet, that has all of your badges and has your skills, your credentials, all that stuff in there, you can take it to another institution. Kind of how students transfer from community college maybe to a university, but usually that's with a traditional transcript. But the overall vision will be learners will have this wallet of all of their verified skills and experiences and credentials that they carry with them in an interoperable plug and play type way. And so the sort of sovereignty of learners becomes a much bigger part of the conversation because there's a lot of data that has been part of this as well. And in student affairs, we don't really talk about data.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:21:36]:

We don't talk about sort of the technical piece because we've been so much about the soft skills, the one to one. If you want to be a dean of students, you're not necessarily getting into a huge portion of the data unless maybe it's connected to retention or some other issue on campus directly. But the Ed tech space, there's so much data that is coming out of that. And so the thing I think will be interesting to see with student affairs throughout every functional area will be the various dashboards and analytics and outcomes coalescing into a space where you can sort of see, okay, where are students at? What do they need? What kind of support do they need? How is that going to influence things that we're doing programmatically as well as for the next as a student goes to another institution for the kind of a handoff, so to speak, because it won't just be your data is stuck at some institution. It's going with you. It's actually traveling along with you, and it might be enabled in some sort of bitcoin wallet that's kind of independent from an institution that's kind of a buzword. But at the same time, that's kind of the ultimate goal, I think, for a lot of companies that are thinking more about the openness of all this. I mean, when you think about the space that I'm currently in and how we interface into higher Ed, it's not just know, NASPA and Acro are playing a big part in this.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:22:53]:

Acro is the Admissions and Registrars Association. They're kind of the home of registrars professionally and technically. Usually that's where the transcript resides. The Lumina Foundation, the big organizations focused on learning and outcomes over the years to even Walmart, because Walmart, I think they're the largest employer in the US. And one of the largest globally. They employ a huge number of people. And so they're thinking about the pathways from higher ed into different careers. I think the pathways piece is one I also want to introduce to this conversation, because it's important to give learners pathways even if they don't graduate, so that people aren't just left with debt and a handful of credits.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:23:31]:

What is it they're actually going to be able to get, even if they don't finish. Because as you know, Jill, sometimes success for one person is just a couple semesters of college and that is like a hugely successful outcome for them. Whereas for a lot of other people, maybe it's graduation, maybe it's master's degree, maybe it's a certificate. Success is very much an individualized thing.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:23:51]:

Still, it's time to take a quick break and toss it over to producer Chris to learn what's going on in the NASPA world.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:57]:

Jill's, so excited to be back again in the NASPA world. A ton of things happening in NASPA. So many of us have been hearing a ton about artificial intelligence. We are starting to explore it or delve deeper into it on our own college campuses. And in the most recent Leadership Exchange magazine, which you all have access to as a member of NASPA, the editors and authors of that magazine did delve deeply into artificial intelligence in the Metaverse and really asked a broader question of whether our profession, whether student affairs is ready for this. It was a fascinating article and definitely a fascinating magazine. To delve much deeper into this topic. I highly encourage you to go to the NASPA website and you can go under publications to the Leadership Exchange magazine and log in and be able to read that for yourself.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:03]:

If you want to check out all the different professional development opportunities, and I know I share a lot of them with you on a regular basis, but if you go under the Events and Online Learning tab, you're going to find everything that is happening within NASPA and around NASPA, all the different professional development opportunities that are available. And this is a great way for you to be able to find things that connect with your professional growth and professional learning that you want. And it will open up opportunities for you to be able to see different ways in which you can grow and learn in your own professional journey. So lots of things happening in NASPA, lots of ways to stay connected with NASPA. Start at the NASPA website, naspa.org, and go and check it out for yourself. Every week we're going to be sharing some amazing things that are happening within the association. So we are going to be able to try and keep you up to date on everything that's happening and allow for you to be able to get involved in different ways. Because the association is as strong as its members and for all of us, we have to find our place within the association, whether it be getting involved with a knowledge community, giving back within one of the centers or the divisions of the association.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:26:24]:

And as you're doing that, it's important to be able to identify for yourself where do you fit, where do you want to give back each week? We're hoping that we will share some things that might encourage you, might allow for you to be able to get some ideas. That will provide you with an opportunity to be able to say, hey, I see myself in that knowledge community. I see myself doing something like that, or encourage you in other ways that allow for you to be able to think beyond what's available right now, to offer other things to the association, to bring your gifts, your talents to the association and to all of the members within the association. Because through doing that, all of us are stronger and the association is better. Tune in again next week as we find out more about what is happening in NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:19]:

A wonderful NASPA World segment as always, Chris, we really appreciate you keeping us updated. What's going on in and around NASPA? Eric, we are now at our lightning round. I have 90 seconds for you to answer seven questions. You ready to roll?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:27:31]:

That's like one of those if a train leaves Chicago heading 5 miles an hour kind of questions. I'm ready to go, Jill. Let's go.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:36]:

All right, question number one. If you were a conference keynote speaker, what would your entrance music be?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:27:42]:

Well, I've been a conference keynote speaker for many different events, so I always like to go with the Glitch mob. They were always pretty good.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:27:49]:

Number two, when you were five years old, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:27:52]:

When I was five years old, I was a little kid in Iowa on a gravel road. I think I wanted to be probably an NBA player because then I would have pavement.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:01]:

Number three, your most influential professional mentor.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:28:04]:

Gosh, there have been so many. I'd say one of the most influential professional mentors I've ever had. Just one. So Kevin Krueger, when we were doing our pre show talk, he's been an instrumental part of my career over the years, and I always appreciated his leadership at NASPA.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:20]:

Number four, your essential higher education. Read.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:28:23]:

I would be remiss if I did not say Insidehired.com. I Know that Scott Jassic is retiring as Editor co Editor Of Inside Higher Ed. It's still, in my view, one of the best sites out there for comprehensive coverage of what's going on in higher ed.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:37]:

Number five, the best TV show you binged during the pandemic.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:28:40]:

Oh, gosh, that was years ago now. The best show? Well, my second son was born during the pandemic, and I watched ridiculous amounts of things late, late at night. I would say some sort of Scandinaro thing on Netflix, because that was kind of what I was into at the time.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:28:56]:

Pandemic's been over for years for you. It's only been over for eight months. Where I'm at. Number six, the podcast you spent the most hours listening to in the last year.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:29:04]:

I would say anything from the Enrollify Podcast network. I like the work that they've done. I feel like their shows are really put together nicely, and there's always interesting topics in terms of higher ed innovation and technology.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:17]:

And finally, number seven, any shout outs you'd like to give, personal or professional?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:29:20]:

First of all, I'd just like to say thank you to Jill for asking me to come on the show. I think that it's always nice to reconnect with folks from Oregon State. So I'll just give you a big shout out because it's been a blast to follow your career sort of vicariously through social networks and social media know you've been just a huge leader around the globe. I mean, you've been everywhere, it seems. So I'm going to give Jill a shout out because I don't think she probably gets enough on these things.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:29:45]:

Thank you. Appreciate it. Eric, it's been such a joy to catch up with you. I've also followed your career just on social. This is the strength of weak ties. I'll cite Granavetter here as a scholar that I read a lot in my public administration doctorate program. But the Strength of Weak Ties, we haven't spoken maybe ten years probably, but it's so lovely to understand and see how we're both contributing, knowing we started off as babies in grad school. And it's very nice to see what success looks like and means for various people from that time in our lives.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:15]:

And if folks would like to reach you after the show, how can they find you?

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:30:17]:

Territorium.com? Or you can always just Google Eric Stoller. Something will come up, most likely. My email is [e-mail].

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:25]:

Eric with a C. Exactly.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:30:27]:

E-R-I-C.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:28]:

Thank you so much for sharing your voice with us.

Dr. Eric Stoller [00:30:30]:

Thanks so much, Jill. It's been great.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:32]:

This has been an episode of SA Voices from the Field brought to you by NASPA. This show is always made possible because of you, our listeners. We are so grateful that you continue to listen to us season after season. If you'd like to reach the show, you can always email us at [e-mail] or find me on LinkedIn. By searching for Dr. Jill L. Craighton. We welcome your feedback and topic and especially your guest suggestions.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:30:58]:

We'd love it if you take a moment to tell a colleague about the show. And please like, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. It really does help other student affairs professionals find the show and helps us become more visible in the larger podcasting community. This episode was produced and hosted by Dr. Jill L. Creighton Seth Me produced and audio engineered by Dr. Chris Lewis. Guest coordination by Lu Yongru.

Dr. Jill Creighton [00:31:23]:

Special thanks to Duke Kunshan University and the University of Michigan, Flint for your support as we create this project. Catch you next time.