Burnt Toast By Virginia Sole-Smith podcast

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For centuries, members of the B’doul Bedouin tribe lived in the caves around the ancient city of Petra, Jordan. Then, in the 1980s, the government forced the tribe to move in the name of preserving the geological site for tourists. But if the residents are forced to leave, and if their heritage has been permanently changed, then what exactly is being preserved? SHOW NOTES: Meet The Man Living in The Lost City Carved in Stone Jordan: Petra's tourism authority cracks down on Bedouin cave dwellers The tribes paying the brutal price of conservation “There is no future for Umm Sayhoun” Jordan’s Young Bedouins Are Documenting Their Traditions on TikTok Check out Sami's company Jordan Inspiration Tours Learn about your ad choices: dovetail.prx.org/ad-choices…

Burnt Toast by Virginia Sole-Smith

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An anti-diet, fat positive community about body liberation. And good snacks.

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Burnt Toast by Virginia Sole-Smith

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Burnt Toast by Virginia Sole-Smith

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"I Love Reading Books With Fat Women Who Don’t Care About Being Fat."

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You are listening to Burnt Toast! Today, my guest is the brilliant . Jasmine is a New York Times -bestselling author of nine novels, including The Wedding Date , The Proposal , and her brand new book Flirting Lessons . jasminepics A post shared by @jasminepics This is an absolutely delightful conversation. Jasmine and I get into why she is publishing her first queer romance. We talk a lot about fat rep in romance novels, and we also talk about gardening. It’s so much fun! You can order Flirting Lessons t hrough the Burnt Toast Bookshop . Don’t forget, you can always take 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk from Split Rock Books! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.) Subscribe now PS. If you enjoy today’s conversation, please tap the heart on this post — likes are one of the biggest drivers of traffic from Substack’s Notes, so that’s a super easy, free way to support the show! Episode 188 Transcript Virginia We are here to talk about Flirting Lessons . I completely inhaled it on vacation last month. It is such a treat. I was already a Noble Vineyards fan, so getting to follow these characters was really fun. But this book is also exciting because it is your first queer romance! Jasmine It is. I’m very excited about it! I hope people like it. Virginia Tell us how this came to be. Jasmine I have been wanting to write a queer romance for a while. But my publishing schedule was kind of set. I had other books planned, so I didn’t quite get to this one as soon as I wanted to. But Avery and Taylor were both characters in my last book, Drunk On Love , and as soon as I wrote them, I was like, oh yeah, these two. So it was really fun to get to write their book. I also took a little break in between books because I was just very burnt out. During the pandemic, I wrote three books back-to-back-to-back, and then had the idea for this book and tried to start writing it, and was like, oh, no, I can’t. I have no ideas. I am empty. Once I got excited about writing again, it was really fun to come back to Avery and Taylor. I was really excited about them, and to get to write a fun, happy story of them out in the world, exploring each other and learning new things. We had a lot of fun with it. Virginia You have a job that I think most people would think sounds like the most fun job in the world. But as a fellow writer—although I don’t get to write romance—writing burnout is real. So I’m glad you were able to take time and take care of that, because it becomes really not fun really fast. Share Jasmine It was really helpful that I have a very supportive publishing team. Many years ago, actually, I was talking to my editor, I asked her a question about one of her other writers and when her next book was coming out. And she was like, “Oh, it’s not coming for a while. She needs to take a break. She was really burnt out.” And then she said to me, “If this ever happens to you, don’t worry. Just let me know. You take your break whenever you need to.” And she told me this five or six years before it happened to me. But it was so nice that I didn’t have to really worry, “will my editor be mad at me?” I’m blowing my deadlines, whatever. It was funny, because right before I realized I needed a break, I had a conversation with my agent, and I don’t even remember what I said exactly. And I said something about publishing or trying to write. And she was like, “Pkay, that’s it. You need a break. You’re not allowed to try anything, like write anything, for at least another month. And then we’ll talk.” And I was like, oh, okay. I think I needed someone to just tell me. And it was great, because once I started getting excited about writing again, then it was fun again. When it wasn’t fun was when I was trying to push through it. Virginia I love that. I’m so glad you have people you’re working with who see that and get that. We need more of that. It sounds like you’d been thinking about this book for a while. Was there any pushback or questions, or anything from your team when you were like, “It’s going to be Taylor and Avery? We’re doing a queer romance this time.” Jasmine No, not at all. They were really excited. They were like, okay, great. What’s their story? What are we going to do? So that was really good. It helped I think that I’ve had a number of the people on my publishing team have been the same people for a long time, so I wasn’t really worried about that. But it was nice that nobody blinked. Virginia I think it speaks to how romance in general has just—and you’ve been a huge part of this—as a genre, it has exploded in so many wonderful, inclusive directions in the last decade. There was always an audience for queer romance, but now the the industry knows there’s an audience for queer romance. Jasmine Exactly right. As with so many of the other kinds of diversity that have gotten good sales over the past 10 years: There was always an audience for those things. It took publishers a while to figure that out. Virginia They had to keep seeing the math. Subscribe now Of course, I want to talk about Taylor Cameron. She stood out to me in Drunk On Love , as such a fun, fantastic character. And I just love how you write her. She is introduced to us as this insanely hot person. She’s an incredible flirt. Everybody in Napa Valley wants to sleep with her. And she’s fat. You kind of casually work that in. There’s a moment where they’re at a spa and she’s like, “Oh, yeah, I can’t ever wear the women’s robes. I’ve got to go walk around naked till they realize they need to get me a better robe.” And it’s unapologetic. It’s just part of who she is. It’s not a plot point. It’s not something that needs defending. I’d just love to hear you talk about how you think about that, as you’re thinking of characters. Jasmine I think there were a few things. I mean, first of all, I love reading books where there are fat women who don’t care about being fat, right? Too often, it’s like, oh, I have to worry about this or I’m trying to lose weight , or whatever. And that’s not everybody. That’s not who I see out in the world. I see so many unapologetic fat women who have great relationships and everybody likes them and everybody cares about them and I wanted to represent people like that in fiction. I think Taylor very much knows herself, knows her body, knows how she is attractive to other people. And I also think that the queer community tends to be—well, women in general tend to be much—I don’t want to say better, but that’s part of it—about accepting other kinds of body sizes and shapes and finding them exciting and attractive. And so that was another fun thing to explore. Virginia I think that’s so needed. There are a lot of examples, as you said, of the apologetic fat character. Who is often written by straight sized folks who just haven’t lived this experience. They can’t imagine it not being something that people would feel the need to define themselves by or apologize for and all of that. It’s just always a delight to get a book and be like, okay, it’s going to be a different version of that here. It’s a safer reading experience, I think, for a lot of folks. Leave a comment Jasmine In so many books there’s a moment where you’re like, oh, I didn’t expect that little hit to the ego . And I never want people to have that experience when reading my books. I mean, I don’t want me to have that experience when reading any books! And so I try to think about that and pay attention to that. Virginia It’s always disappointing. O bviously, across romance, I think we’re making some pretty good progress on fat rep. I think again, you were a real trailblazer on this, and there are a lot of other wonderful authors doing it now. But it’s still by no means a given. Where do you think the industry is on this? Where are you still running into brick walls? Jasmine I think some of the brick walls just come from, at least for me, not my editor, my publisher, like my agent, they’re all great. Sometimes it’s retailers, right? If there’s a book with a fat woman on the cover, will they want to put it front and center? Or will, will they want to stock it at all? Sometimes it’s in the right cover design. Sometimes retailers will come back when there’s a cover and be like, we don’t love it. And if it’s a big enough retailer, you have to fix the cover or change the cover. And so sometimes it’s that they don’t want a woman who looks like that on the cover or they don’t want someone with too dark of skin on the cover , or anything like that. And then some of it is readers, sometimes. It’s retailers thinking that readers will think this, and sometimes it’s readers actually thinking this. You’ll see it in reviews, which I tried to avoid reading. But yeah, sometimes they get slapped in your face. Like, “well, would someone with a body like that really think about that though? Like, I don’t know if someone would really find her attractive.” That happens all the time. That’s some of the pushback that you get. Virginia Yeah, the reader response is really interesting. I had Nisha Sharma on the podcast last year. And she was talking about how sometimes at book events, readers will say, like, I didn’t think this book was for me, because, either because they’re thin or because they’re white. And she’s like, well, you read books about serial killers, but you’re not a serial killer. Jasmine Right? You read books about dukes in 19th century England, but you’re not a duke. Virginia Like, you managed to make those leaps, why is this a hard? It’s fascinating that this comes up. Jasmine I think it’s fascinating, but also so anti-my experience, because I grew up reading all sorts of books that had nothing to do with me. I don’t think about having to relate to the main character. Virginia You’re not reading in front of the mirror when you read a book. Jasmine I guess, if you grow up reading books where the characters look like you, and have specific experiences that you do, you think about books in that way. It has never been anything that I had have ever thought about. Virginia Yeah, and it’s limiting. I mean, it just is. Of course, it’s powerful to see ourselves reflected in books. That’s why representation matters. But it shouldn’t be just this one default experience all the time. Jasmine Yeah, some people have very strong preferences for point of view in books, which I just don’t care about at all. But I’ve seen people say that they prefer first person because they like to envision themselves as the character, which is never anything that I would have thought of. But I think so many people are just used to reading books where they can do that. Share Virginia What do you hear from readers for whom your books are offering them representation for the first time? Jasmine That has been one of the most rewarding things. I’m going on book tour next month. And in many cases, book tours are exhausting because it’s like so much travel and going from place to place and airplanes and events and stuff. But the actual events just fill me up because I have so many readers who say, “I see myself represented here, I see my relationships, I see my family in ways that I haven’t seen in other books or that I didn’t expect to see.” Things like that from readers really just keep me going. It just does feel really wonderful to hear that and to and also to feel like something that I have written resonates with other people in that way. It really just makes such a big difference to me to hear that. Virginia You’re showing people different possibilities sometimes. Another thing Nisha mentioned was hearing from fat readers saying, “I didn’t know a fat person could have sex that way.” And like, it devastates me that someone would become a fully formed adult, not have had that get clear to them that that’s possible. But that’s why the power of fat bodies in positive, joyful sex scenes, is really important. Jasmine Absolutely, I totally agree. And being able to think, “there are people who find that kind of a body attractive, maybe they will find me attractive, too,” I think is really incredible, especially for maybe younger readers. I’m not talking about teenagers, well maybe teenagers, but people in their 20s maybe who have only ever seen a certain body type reflected in this is who is attractive. And I think one of the delightful things about romance novels and especially queer romance novels about women, is that I am writing to the female gaze here. It’s women appreciating women, which is very fun to write and it’s very fun to read. Virginia Was it different writing the sex scenes for this book, compared to past novels? Jasmine Yes and no. I think the most fun part of writing sex scenes, for me, is always writing about female pleasure. So it was just like a lot more of that. Virginia It’s now doubled, literally, twice as much female pleasure. I mean, that is what is so wonderful about your work is how much it centers female pleasure. Refer a friend Jasmine Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Virginia I checked in with podcast listeners to see if folks had questions for you, and one that actually came up more than once was okay, the book is called Flirting Lessons . Can Jasmine give us a flirting lesson? Jasmine There are a few things that Taylor tells Avery early on. But I think one of the things that I had her keep emphasizing is: You want this to be fun for you, too. Only flirt with people who you find attractive, who you want to flirt with. And if it’s not fun for you, then you can stop. This isn’t something that you have to do. One of the things about flirting is that it should be fun and exciting. And if you’re not getting that back, then you move on to the next person. There are lots of people who you can flirt with, and that’s okay. And I think that’s something that people think too much about. Like, is the other person enjoying this and not am I enjoying this? Virginia Yes! Because as women, that’s what we’re conditioned to think: Am I doing what he wants (or they want) as opposed to centering our own pleasure? Jasmine Yes. One of the things about flirting is you have to be willing to put yourself out there. You want people to know that you are flirting with them, and that feels scary because you’re setting yourself up for rejection. Like, what if this person is like, oh, I don’t want to flirt with her. Okay, then you move on. But I think that is kind of one of the barriers to get over is like, you you have to let yourself be open to that, and then if it’s not good, then you just move on. Virginia Yeah, because if it’s not good, it won’t be fun for you. Subscribe now For folks who haven’t read the book yet, Taylor has many excellent flirting tips. Like, the whole book is her taking Avery on these flirting lessons where they go out in the world. Especially in this era of mostly online dating, I was just so nervous for Avery. I should say, Jasmine, I am divorced after an almost-25-year relationship. So my experience of dating in my 40s has been mostly really great—but I really felt for Avery in that panic of, I’m really going to go out there? I have to talk to people. What? Jasmine Yeah, because it is scary, right? I think that was one of the fun things about writing this book as we are coming out of a period where we were all shut in and not really talking, not encountering people out in the world, was to think about where would they go? What would they do? What are situations where you’re just meeting new people? And I think one of the things is having things already built in to talk about. Like the first flirting lesson that they go on—minor spoiler—is at a bookstore for a book event. And like, you have something to talk about. You’re there at a bookstore, you can talk about books. You can talk about the author that you’re there to see. You could talk about what other books have you read? And so that helps us, we already have a built in topic that I can talk to a stranger about and then maybe it’ll go from there. And thinking about things like that was really fun for me. How it’s a slightly safe setup for for them to start with that and then kind of keep going. Virginia A lot of the advice was about making friends as well. It’s not just, would I want to sleep with this person? It’s about being open to all kinds of relationships. And that was really beautiful. I really enjoyed that theme. Jasmine Yeah, absolutely. I hear a lot of people ask you the questions, like, how do you make friends as an adult? And I think the the answers are the same, right? You have to be willing to put yourself out there. You have to be willing to say to someone who is basically a stranger, like, do you want to get coffee sometime? Or, we talked about that cool bar, do you want to meet there for a drink sometime? And I think that’s hard and scary for people, but that’s how I’ve made some of my closest friendships. Share Butter Jasmine It is springtime or getting close to and I’m getting slightly obsessed with planning my garden. I, as Avery does in the book, like, learned to garden. And I have been lightly obsessed with planting for years. And then a few years ago, I bought a house. And then now have a very small amount of things to plant, and have started planting as much as possible in all of that. So I have six new rose bushes ready to be planted in space that I don’t have. And I have been planting lots of herbs and some sugar snap peas. There’s a great book that came out last year, I think it just came out in paperback called Soil . It’s by a Black woman and it’s about planting and gardening and the history of doing that. And it was very fun to read, and it’s very fun to like think about at a time like this. Virginia I am a hardcore gardener as well, and also regularly have more plants than I have space for. That’s a deeply relatable problem. Jasmine I’ve been inspired by you, actually, because was it last year that you only planted flowers? And I planted a bunch of roses, but not a lot of other flowers, and this year I want to plant more flowers. Virginia I strongly encourag that. We really underestimate the absolute necessity of growing beautiful flowers. Like, it’s an essential in my mind. Interestingly, now there’s some pushback in my household that we should maybe get back to doing some more food, and I’m like, should we? Where’s that going to go? Because I really need all the space for the dahlias. I don’t know what to tell you. We’re trying to carve out different areas so it can be a little more of a mix. But it’s so satisfying and fun. That’s a great Butter. Anything else you want to recommend? Jasmine I have read a few great books recently. I read the upcoming novel by Taylor Jenkins Reid, Atmosphere . It’s about two women in the space program in the 80s. It is so good. I loved it. It was one of those I read in a day. I mean, I was on vacation, so I could do that. But I loved it so much. I’m reading. Alexis Daria’s newest one right now, It’s called, Along Came Amor , it’s so good. It’s about the oldest cousin in the family—which, I am from a big family and a lot of the family stuff in it I really related to, and also I am the oldest sister and my mom is also the oldest sister. So, a lot of that kind of stuff, I related to and I loved the characters. So those are two of the most recent books that I’ve read that I really loved. I’m in the midst of Kennedy Ryan’s upcoming book, which is just lovely. It’s called, Can’t Get Enough . I’m in the middle of that and it’s, I mean, her writing is just so beautiful all the time. It’s great to kind of linger in. Virginia Those are such good recs. I’m adding all of them to my to be read pile, which is, of course, a never ending list. I’m going to do two book recs as well. One is Fang Fiction by Kate Stayman-London. Jasmine Oh, I love Kate. I haven’t read this one yet, but I need to get to it, because everybody’s told me it’s so good. Virginia It’s so delightful, especially if you are a Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan or a Twilight fan, or were ever in the vampire genre. It’s a romance, but it’s a whole, delightful experience. It’s someone who’s a fan of vampire novels who ends up inside a vampire novel, etc. It’s great. It was really, really fun read. And then the other one I just finished, actually, on audiobook. My podcast cohost recommended this a few weeks ago, but I’m just going to second Corinne’s endorsement of The Safekeep by Yael van der Wouden. I’m probably mispronouncing that. I’m so sorry. It is an erotic story of love and obsession in 1960s Amsterdam. Jasmine Someone else told me about this book. I’ve heard about this book from a few other writers, and I need to really read it. Virginia Corinne didn’t want to say too much about it, and now I understand why. There’s a lot of twists, so I don’t want to say too much, but it does center a queer romance, which is really fascinating in that time and place. It also has a lot to do with post World War II Europe. I was totally absorbed in it. I had a long road trip this weekend and just kept being like, when am I back in my car so I can listen to that book some more? Jasmine Okay. I need to get to it. Virginia Well, Jasmine, this was so much fun. Thank you for taking the time to hang out with us. I am such a fan of your work. All of your novels are must reads. And I want folks to check out Flirting Lessons . So tell us where to find you, how we support your work, all those things. Jasmine I’m on Instagram at JasminePics . My website is Jasmineguillory.com and on the events page, you can find links to all of my upcoming book tour events and doing a bunch on the Eastern seaboard and then in the Midwest, and then the West coast. So hopefully I will be coming to a city near you, and you’ll be able to come out. Leave a comment The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram ) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus , and Big Undies . The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe . Our theme music is by Farideh . Tommy Harron is our audio engineer. Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism! Subscribe now…

Burnt Toast by Virginia Sole-Smith

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Are We On A Phone Diet?

πριν 11 μέρες

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You’re listening to Burnt Toast! We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay , and it’s time for your April Indulgence Gospel! Subscribe now These episodes are usually only for paid subscribers but we’re releasing this one for free! If you like it, you can get even more Virginia by becoming a paid Burnt Toast subscriber — and then you’ll get even more Corinne, because paid Burnt Toasties can take 20% off their Big Undies subscription! Bundle with Big Undies! There has been so much conversation in online spaces over the past few months about divesting from social media. Folks are dropping X, Facebook, Instagram as a form of protest against billionaire tech bros like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. And a lot of us are also feeling the need to doom scroll less as a form of self care. Plus, when Tiktok drops a new Chubby filter, it doesn’t really make us want to be there. So today we’re chatting about how we’re both feeling about social media. What are we divesting from? How’s it going? And does any of this feel like a diet? Kmatta, Getty Images PS. You can always listen to our episodes right here in your email, where you’ll also receive full transcripts (edited and condensed for clarity). But please also follow us in Apple Podcasts , Spotify , Stitcher , and/or Pocket Casts ! This transcript does contain affiliate links; shopping our links is a great way to support Burnt Toast! Episode 187 Transcript Corinne Well, you’ve really been a leader in this field. Virginia A pioneer, would we say? Corinne You’ve been a pioneer in the field of quitting Instagram. Virginia Since December? I feel I cannot really claim pioneer status for something I’ve been doing for three months! But let’s start at the beginning. What was your starting point in feeling like you wanted to start reevaluating your relationship with social media? Corinne Well, to be honest, I don’t know. I still feel mixed about it. We maybe should start by acknowledging that the “quitting Instagram” conversation just feels like it’s been going on forever. Virginia Forever! Corinne It feels like it has been years of people being like, “I’m so tired of Instagram blah, blah, blah.” And I’m someone who has always sort of felt like, “whatever, it’s fine.” I don’t necessarily feel like I go down an Instagram rabbit hole and then feel terrible about myself. Maybe in some specific circumstances. So maybe for me, it started with our screen time episode . Virginia Where we looked at how much time we were spending on our phones. That was a hard day for both of us. Corinne I saw some stat recently that was like, if you spend two hours a day on Instagram, at the end of your life, you will have spent 10 years on Instagram. And that felt a little bleak. Virginia Okay, I don’t love that. Corinne Yeah, I didn’t love it. But there are also things I enjoy about Instagram. I do have a lot of friends and community there. SoI thought, well, why don’t I just delete it for the weekend? Virginia And that’s what you’ve started with. Corinne And that’s what I’ve started with. Share What about you? What was your starting point? Virginia Mine was a little bit of a whim. I’ve been trying different things for a few years now to manage my relationship with Instagram specifically and with my phone more generally. And some of that was realizing that as a business strategy, it was not serving me to keep putting a lot of time into making reels and elaborate content for Instagram. Instagram is so siloed. It wasn’t translating to people coming over and finding Burnt Toast and the podcast. Maybe a handful of people do every week. But it’s not our main driver, and never has been. So once I connected those dotes, I had to ask: Why am I spending an hour+ per day making content, for free, for this evil billionaire-led corporation? It didn’t feel right to me. So I’ve been scaling back and scaling back. But then it was really a total whim that in December, right as my kids’ winter break was starting, I was just like, you know what? I’m going to just fully delete it while my kids are off school. It’s the holidays, and I want to be able to focus on that. Leave a comment And I will say, that was the first time I’d ever deleted it. I’ve often, in the past, on vacation, logged out or taken it off my home screen or taken a two week break, or a one week break, just by hiding it in my phone somewhere. But I always knew the tricks to find it again. So if I wanted to get back on I could. And this time, I was like, nope, it is not on my phone anymore. And that felt really huge. And then. I really did not miss it at all. I really loved not having it in my space over the holidays in particular. And while I would agree with you that I’m also not someone who was spending a lot of time looking at beauty influencers and feeling bad about my skin or whatever, it turns out that I was getting locked into a comparison trap I didn’t even recognize. Especially around the holidays when a lot of people are posting their perfect family photos—I realized I enjoyed my own Christmas much more when I wasn’t comparing the messy reality of my family navigating the holidays with what people are curating for social media. Corinne Totally. That makes a lot of sense. Virginia I hadn’t even realized how much that bummed me out! But I was like, oh, I don’t want to see people’s Happy Family photos! Which makes me feel like a jerk, but it’s where I was. Corinne I think that’s very honest, and good to be aware of. Subscribe now Virginia So that was an interesting data point. And then after the holidays, I really was not dying to get it back on my phone, but I felt like I needed to bring it back for work. So here’s what I’m doing now: A couple of times a week, when we have a new podcast episode or new newsletter to promote, I’m logging on. I’m putting some stuff in stories. I’m spending a little bit of time responding to DMs. And then I delete it again until the next time I need to do that. So I’m really only downloading it like three or four times a week for an hour or two at a time. Corinne Wow, that’s awesome. Virginia Yeah, it’s a big change. Share What have you noticed about not having it during the weekends? Corinne I think I’ve done it for three weekends, so hasn’t been super long. The first weekend, I was still looking for Instagram on my phone all the time. And then the second weekend, I think I actually forgot to delete it and just didn’t look at it. Virginia Interesting. Corinne One thing I’ve noticed is, I think we’re in a day and age where a lot of useful information is on Instagram. I was trying to look up whether something was open. Virginia Oh, like local businesses. Corinne And the only thing I actually trust would be Instagram. But you can still kind of use it in the web browser app. Virginia Yes, and it’s not at all addictive there because it’s so bad. You can quickly look something up if you need to. That’s how I’ve been using it for podcast episode research or story research is strictly web browser. Yeah, the local business thing. I definitely hear you on that. Corinne I’ve also noticed how quickly I can just use something else the same way. Like Substack notes have kind of turned into a similar thing. Or I also used to be really into playing Candy Crush, and so I’ve gotten a little bit back into Candy Crush as a zone out phone thing. Virginia Because you still need the dopamine hit and the “I’m going to just check out for a minute and do something mindless on my phone” break. So when I went on vacation in February, I deleted Instagram, I deleted Substack, which felt terrifying because that’s my lifeline to my whole business, and I deleted my email off my phone, which felt even more terrifying. But was actually great. And I had the privilege of saying to Corinne, “If something explodes with Burnt Toast while I’m away, please text me.” And I would do the same for you. So it’s nice we have that option. But now on the weekends, I’m trying to remember to delete all three of them to cut down a little bit on that mindlessly-looking-at-my-phone thing. I would so much rather be reading a book if I’m going do something where I just need a brain break. I would rather be reading a feminist romance novel than scrolling an app! It’s going to be more relaxing for me. I know this—but I have not yet broken the pickup phone check. I have not broken the muscle memory of that and I don’t know how we do that. Leave a comment Corinne It’s hard. I’ll notice if I can even see the shape of my phone out of the corner of my eye sometimes it’s distracting , you know? Virginia I’m also such a power texter. And I do love texting for the connections it brings me. I don’t live with another adult and my kids are amazing, but I need adult conversation . Texting helps me feel like a part of my community. So that means I’m looking at my phone more for texting. And then once you’re texting, it’s like, oh, let me just check … And so I’m really on top of my New York Times word games. I’ll often find myself mindlessly doodling around my phone being like, wait, I’m not doing anything because there’s nothing here. So I don’t know if that just fades eventually, or if I need, we need to do something more concrete to break that cycle. Have you ever tried the brick ? Corinne No, but I’ve been hearing about that. I’ve been hearing a lot about the brick, and also this app Opal , that similarly blocks certain stuff on your phone. Virginia I bought a brick maybe a year ago, and I did use it for a little bit. I was totally like, “This is going to be my Butter on the next podcast episode because it’s changing my life!” And then I put it down and never used it again. olaser, Getty Images Corinne That’s so funny. Virginia But as we’re talking I’m like, should I try it again? Maybe it would turn my phone into a texting only vehicle. Corinne I’ve heard about people using it so as you go out the door on the way to work, you tap it and then it blocks stuff while you’re at work. But as a person who works from home, it doesn’t feel like that makes as much sense for me. Virginia You would just get up and go get the brick when you wanted to break into your phone, right? That’s what was happening to me. Subscribe now Corinne And I feel like it’s more like, I want to block stuff on my phone when I’m at home. Virginia I’m like, should I brick everything except text messages over the weekend? It’s something to play around with, maybe. Except, like, Google Maps or something, the essential things. Like, can you make your phone as unfun as possible? Corinne There are also now all those smartphone alternatives. I think there’s one called, Wisephone where they have the basics, but they just try to make it not fun. I think they’re black and white and don’t have social media apps, but still have phone calls, maps, texting stuff. Virginia Have you noticed any differences in terms of how you’re feeling about your body just because you’re less on Instagram and Tiktok? Corinne To be honest, I haven’t noticed. I feel like my body stuff is more influenced by real life and discomfort in the actual world. I guess I do notice on Tiktok especially, that there is just a lot of filtering, I guess. Both skin and body stuff. Right now, there is a lot of talk about the new AI chubby filter, where you can use this certain filter and it makes you into a chubby person. Virginia I want to know what it would do to actual fat people. (Spoiler: Not much!!! ) Corinne Yeah, I have seen fat people using it. It does not do a lot. But the thing I’ll say about it is: It’s Disney chubby. It makes you into a cute cartoon fat person. Like chubby arms, but they’re smooth and you still have a waist. And then I also was realizing Tiktok has this app called CapCut that is a video editing app, and there are so many things you can do to your body. There are little things you can click like “square shoulders” or “shrink in waist,” just all these tiny little edits that you can totally mess with your your body. Virginia I mean, it’s not hard to see the potential for harm there is from that. Like, if you are uploading content of yourself and using these filters to digitally alter as much about yourself as possible, it is going to create a major disconnect with how you feel about your actual body. I don’t use CapCut. But when I am editing photos, I use A Color Story, which is a photo editing app. I mostly doing it to brighten up a photo that didn’t have good lighting, or cropping it to fit into how I want it to look on Substack or something. But I do brighten, and I sometimes use a filter that makes the photo look higher quality. But of course, in doing that, it also is smoothing out my skin, or making me look a little more tan, that kind of thing. And there are times when I then look at an actual mirror and I’m like, oh, wait, I don’t have the Color Story “Welcome Home” filter on me. I am less glowy in real life. And it is weird. And that’s like, such a mild use of it. Corinne Totally. When you’re recording TikTok videos, I think maybe the default is to have some kind of beauty filter on that like smooths out your skin. Virginia Oh god! So wild! Do you ever use filters when you make Tiktok content? Corinne I think I have unknowingly in that way where it’s just the default. Virginia I’ve been coerced into it. Corinne Yeah, not that I’ve looked at my face and been like, dang, put something on there. But I’ve also played around with some of the like, makeup-y filters, and usually I hate the way they make me look. I recently posted a TikTok where I was like, Does this not work on me because I’m fat or because I’m gay? I just don’t like how it makes me look. So, yeah, I think I’m maybe like, less susceptible. But I mean, it’s really strange. It’s just weird. @selfiefay @selfiefay ♬ original sound - SelfieFay Tiktok failed to load. Enable 3rd party cookies or use another browser Virginia It is really weird! We will link to , who was on the podcast a while back, talking about her book about Korean beauty culture. She has a great TED talk she did recently about digital beauty standards and how they are messing with all of us , and particularly teenagers. It is a grim piece of this. Corinne The other thing I think about a lot with this is plastic surgery. Because the filters are one thing. But then I also think there’s just a lot of really popular people who are doing a lot of stuff to their face . Virginia It’s just like intentional weight loss. It’s a necessary survival strategy in a capitalist society for a lot of people, a lot of job descriptions hinge on it. So it’s there. And it also then has these ripple effects, of the more we look at those images, the more our brains normalize to those images, and the more we expect out of ourselves and others, and that way danger lies. Corinne Right? And it’s one thing to like be doing that and disclosing it, and then it’s another thing to not be. Virginia Totally. Leave a comment Are you deleting Tiktok as well on the weekends? Or just Instagram? Corinne I have been deleting Tiktok as well. Tiktok is way more of a problem for me. I have this thing where I’m like, I’m just going to look at Tiktok for 15 minutes before I go to sleep. And then it’s literally two hours later, and I’m like, what? Virginia So then that leads me to the next thing on our outline, which is we are going to check our phone time. I am curious to know if not having Tiktok is actually lowering your screen time. Corinne Well, not having Tiktok for two days. But yeah. Virginia So for anyone who missed our previous episode, Corinne and I were both averaging around eight hours of screen time a day according to our phones. Now I will put a caveat in that, which is, I talked to after that episode came out. And Ash told me that the iPhone screen time is not actually accurate, because it keeps recording after you put your phone down if you haven’t quit out of an app. So, like, there are lots of ways the phone is amplifying your screen time, which I think is very important for us to know. However we can at least compare. It was somewhere around eight hours before. What is it now? So let’s look at last weekend. How did you do, Corinne? Corinne Last Friday, I had six and a half hours. I had eight hours on Saturday, but I had 12 hours on Thursday and 11 hours on Wednesday. Virginia I had 13 hours on Thursday. Corinne Yeah, I’m really questioning how accurate this is. Virginia I’m really questioning how accurate it is, but I’m also like, wow, so it doesn’t fucking matter? Because even if it’s not accurate, it’s still roughly the same as what we had before, when we were on Instagram and Tiktok all the time? Subscribe now Corinne I mean, it doesn’t look like it’s making a huge difference. For me it looks like there’s maybe like, one hour difference. I don’t know. Virginia I mean, my most used app before was texting, and that’s still true. Like last Saturday, 8 hours and 39 minutes of total time, 3 hours and 22 minutes on texting. And what can I say? I had my kids last weekend, and I need adult conversation when I’m parenting. So there we are. But there is no Instagram time listed because I had deleted it. Corinne Yeah, yep. Definitely spending less time on Instagram. Is that a net positive? Virginia I don’t know, but it is distilling for me what the problems are. It tells you how many times you picked up your phone in one day, and I’m picking up my phone like 150 times a day. So maybe that’s the next piece of this I need to work on. Corinne Yeah, my daily average is 140. Share Virginia Yep, that sounds right. Wow, cool, great. So that’s depressing. We’re getting no better, but we are noticing benefits from being on these particular apps less. Corinne Yeah, right. We are? What are they? Virginia Did we just like ruin our entire sense of accomplishment? Oh, my gosh. I mean, I think what’s interesting is we had both verbalized concrete ways this was making our lives better, and then we looked at the numbers and we felt like garbage. And what does that remind us of, Corinne? Corinne Hmmm, dieting? Virginia So how do we think about wanting to use our phones less and not get caught up in a perfectionistic diet-y mindset? Corinne As you said, the tracking is not accurate. So I think we need to just not track. And not turn this into an information thing. Virginia It really should be more about how we feel. I also think there’s still some work that I personally need to do untangling morality and screen time. Like when I said earlier, oh, I’d be so much happier reading a book. I know that is true in the way that my brain feels after reading versus the way my brain feels after scrolling. I know I feel calmer and less stressed. But what I don’t know is how much of that is because I think reading a book is a morally superior activity to being on my phone. Leave a comment Corinne I mean, I think it’s also really easy to make a diet culture parallel there. It’s like, sometimes I might actually physically feel better if I eat some salad with my pizza, rather than just eating a ton of—I don’t know, pizza is not a problem for me. But I think there’s an argument sometimes, where it’s like, I do feel better when I eat this way, and it’s not the whole story. Virginia How much of that is “I feel better because I’ve been told this is better” versus “I’m really noticing some physiological shifts.” And I think it can also be both, right? And I think with me, with books versus phone, it is both. But it is that is a piece of it. And I think I have to be careful to interrogate that part of it, in order to prevent this from becoming like…the phone diet. Corinne Totally. I also feel like you’ve pretty clearly identified what part of the phone using is helpful and valuable to you, like texting. Virginia Yeah, that’s true. So there’s no reason to feel bad if there’s a lot of hours spent texting, because that’s me being in touch with my community. What about you? Do you feel like there’s a clear way your phone is valuable to you? Corinne I feel very clear on what I don’t like, which is scrolling TikTok for three hours before I fall asleep. But that also seems to be one of the most impossible things for me to kick. Virginia What if you deleted it before bed? Corinne I mean, it’s just like, would I? There are all kinds of tips that are, like, put your phone in the other room, blah, blah, blah, and I’m just like, I’m going to put my phone in the other room after I look on TikTok for five minutes. So I don’t know if deleting it would be any different. Share Virginia I used to put my phone in the other room when I shared my room with someone else who had their phone on the nightstand, and now that I don’t, I want my phone in my room in case of emergencies. I want it in my room if my kids are not with me, in case, a kid gets sick in the middle of the night and, God forbid, I need to be notified. And I want it in my room when the kids are with me, in case the killer breaks into our house. So I can’t do that one anymore. And I think that’s fine. But I do think editing down what’s available on the phone is helpful for the bedtime thing. But I also understand it’s like, are you going to do it? Maybe that’s where one of those apps, or the brick or something, could come in handy. But we haven’t gotten there yet. I mean to that note of us being like we need our phones in our rooms for safety, which I think is valid for people who live alone, we should also talk about like the function of privilege in all of this, and how much divesting from screen time is, in and of itself, for privilege, Corinne And just the privilege to have a ton of screen time. Virginia Yeah, yeah, to have the time to do it. But also, I really, again, love Ash Brandin’s work on this. They talk about screen time and kids. So they’re not really talking about social media. They’re usually talking about video games and younger kids. And Ash wrote : If we fear a child has too much screen time? Perhaps the question to ask is, what underlying need is not being met for this child? And if we do think that’s related to screen time, the question becomes, what need is this screen time meeting? Is it replacing a lack of parental leave, child care, a regulated parent, outdoor access movement? How do we address that need? Focusing on the screen will only make the caregiver feel shame, and that doesn’t help anyone, especially the child. TheGamerEducator Is this really "concern for children"? 🤯I keep thinking about this recent student from The Ohio State University which focused on screen time and literacy and math skills in preschoolers from marginalized communities. It found NO correlation (no relationship at all) between time on screens and literacy or math skills… Listen now a month ago · 22 likes · TheGamerEducator And I read that, and thought, yes . Because I know in addition to me needing my phone with me more as a single parent, my kids get more screen time now that they live in two single parent households , because there are not two people there all the time to have other things going on. And it does meet some needs. And I think we can definitely extrapolate that to ourselves and ask what need is our screen time meeting? Corinne Yeah, that’s a great question. Virginia So what need does three hours of TikTok scrolling meet for you? Corinne I don’t think I have an answer, but I will definitely be thinking about it. Virginia I do think a lot of it is social connection. I mean, I think all of our screen time increased during the pandemic because social media became a replacement for community. I think there’s a lot going on there. And I think talking more honestly about that piece of it and understanding, what are you actually getting out of this, seems more useful than just, it’s bad, it’s bad. I’m bad for using it. Leave a comment Butter Corinne Virginia. Do you have a Butter this week? Virginia I do. I’m going to suggest a fun, non screen time activity to do with kids. Not because I think screen time is bad, but just because it has been really fun in my house lately. It is giant coloring sheets, where you just put this giant poster roll of paper with a printed coloring thing on it, on a table with some markers, and you and your kids or your friends or whoever go to town on it, and it is really soothing and lovely. Some recent coffee table coloring at Virginia’s house Corinne Wow, that sounds fun. Virginia Yeah, I got the first ones at Christmas, and I did buy them off Amazon, which we are no longer shopping at . And I had them out over the holidays when grandparents were visiting, and it was really nice for giving them an easy way to hang out with the grandkids, and just like, anyone could do it. There’s no skill. There is not really a lot of skill in coloring, and it’s just a nice it’s a nice way to be together. I don’t know, it’s great. And then I posted about it on Instagram, and said I was looking for some non-Amazon options. And folks sent me two good ones. One is Friends Art Lab , which makes some really cute 10 foot long coloring rolls. So I’ve ordered some of those. And then I got some from Grove Collaborative . They’re smaller, but that was actually kind of nice. They fit better on our coffee table. And we’ve been doing those. I just keep it out on the coffee table with some markers. And I particularly find when we’ve had a cranky day, or there has been a lot of squabbling, that sitting down to color calms me down, and then inevitably a kid will join me. And maybe we’re not really talking, but we’re kind of like co-regulating ourselves. Corinne That sounds really nice! Virginia It’s also good to do while you’re watching TV. if I don’t have a puzzle going, it’s the same kind of like, keeps my hands busy, keeps me off my phone. Corinne I love that. Virginia What about you? Corinne My Butter this week is maybe a little bit niche. Virginia I love a niche butter. Corinne I was really struggling with the water pressure in my shower, my shower hose head thing was broken, and like all this water was just leaking out of it. Anyways, I replaced my shower head. It’s incredible. I highly recommend replacing your shower head, especially if you have hard water. Virginia Oh really? Corinne We have really hard water here and minerals build up and break everything and clog all the little shower holes. But I got a new shower hose and shower head, and it’s incredible. Like, what was I doing? Was I even washing shampoo out of my hair? Or was I just leaving it there? I always kind of dread stuff like that, but it was literally like, I could do the whole thing with my hand. I needed a wrench to get the old one off, just a tiny bit. But then you just hand tighten it. It doesn’t leak. it It’s so great. It’s such an easy little upgrade. So, highly recommend getting a new shower head. Virginia I love when any house thing that I think is going to be a nightmare turns out to actually be quite easy. A lot of them do. Not all of them! And then you’re like, oh, this dramatically improved my daily quality of life. Why didn’t I do it a year ago? Corinne Yeah, it has really, really improved my quality of life. So, something to think about! Leave a comment The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram ) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus , and Big Undies — subscribe for 20% off ! The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe . Our theme music is by Farideh . Tommy Harron is our audio engineer. Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism!…

Burnt Toast by Virginia Sole-Smith

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"Do I Tell My Kids I'm On Ozempic?"

πριν 18 μέρες

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You’re listening to Burnt Toast! We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay , and it’s time for a bonus March Indulgence Gospel! Today we’re chatting about: ⭐️ How to talk to your kids about (your) weight loss and/or GLP-1 use. ⭐️ How to handle medically-advised diets without getting…diet-y. ⭐️Our favorite leggings (we stand by all these recs!) ⭐️Dealing with haters… and more! To hear the full story, you’ll need to be a paid Burnt Toast subscriber . Subscriptions are $7 per month or $70 for the year. adamkaz for Getty Images Read more…

Burnt Toast by Virginia Sole-Smith

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Does Dr. Becky Have a Privilege Problem?

πριν 25 μέρες

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You’re listening to Burnt Toast! We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay , and it’s time for your March Extra Butter. Today we’re talking about Dr. Becky Kennedy, the beloved parenting influencer. We’ll get into: ⭐️ The Dr. Becky mantra that Virginia uses…often. ⭐️Why you don’t need to cook dinner for your kids at 3pm. ⭐️ The infamous “school nurse call” post. ⭐️ Is Dr. Becky — and parenting content more broadly— a diet or diet-adjacent? John Nacion / Contributor for Getty Images To hear this episode, you do need to be an Extra Butter subscriber! Subscribe now Subscriptions are $99 per year — but if you’re already a regular paid subscriber, you’ll only pay the difference. In these monthly episodes, we get into the GOOD stuff like: Is Mel Robbins a Diet? Dating While Fat Why all the fat influencers are getting skinn y And… did Virginia really get divorced over butter ? Extra Butters also get exclusive weekly chats, DM access, and a monthly bonus essay or thread. And Extra Butter ensures that the Burnt Toast community can always stay an ad- and sponsor-free space —which is crucial for body liberation journalism. Join us here! (Questions? Glitches? Email Virginia all the details, and cc support@substack.com.) PS. If Extra Butter isn’t the right tier for you, remember that you still get access behind almost every other paywall with a regular paid subscription . Read more…

Burnt Toast by Virginia Sole-Smith

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The Last Fat Mom in the Hudson Valley?

πριν 5 weeks

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You’re listening to Burnt Toast! We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay , and it’s time for your March Indulgence Gospel! Subscribe now Indulgence Gospel episodes are usually only for paid subscribers but we’re releasing this one for free! If you like it, you can get even more Virginia by becoming a paid Burnt Toast subscriber — and then you’ll get even more Corinne, because paid Burnt Toasties can take 20% off their subscription! Bundle with Big Undies! Today we’re chatting about: ⭐️ Navigating fitness spaces designed for smaller bodies! ⭐️ Feelings about hair color! ⭐️ Do Virginia and Corinne like sports now? 👀 ⭐️ And what to do when it seems like everyone is on a weight loss drug. PS. You can always listen to our episodes right here in your email, where you’ll also receive full transcripts (edited and condensed for clarity). But please also follow us in Apple Podcasts , Spotify , Stitcher , and/or Pocket Casts ! Luis Alvarez for Getty Images Episode 184 Transcript Virginia Okay, I just want to say: We got a lot of clothing-related questions this month, which we’re sending over to the space. Not that we’ll never talk about clothes on Burnt Toast! But if you’re someone who’s coming to us for that content, you really need to be reading because Corinne is doing the Lord’s work over there. Corinne Yep,. I am doing the Lord’s work. Virginia You are the most size-inclusive fashion Substack. I’m going to just claim that title for you. I think it’s correct? Corinne I mean, a size-inclusive fashion Substack. Virginia Well, admittedly, the competition for Most Size-Inclusive is not stiff, since most fashion Substacks are not at all size inclusive . But there are a handful of great ones! You are just my favorite. Big Undies When The Collective Taste Doesn't Include You A few months ago, I began going through the top 25 fashion Substacks to figure out what percentage of the stuff they linked to would fit me. This project was sparked by the fact that I started a Substack about clothes. In an effort to do a bit of market research, I started reading a bunch of Substack’s top fashion & beauty newsletters. But I quickly rea… Read more 8 months ago · 808 likes · 52 comments · Corinne Fay Corinne You can always DM or email me your questions! Virginia Corinne has answered many of my fashion questions. So send more of them to Corinne! Okay, so what’s new? How are you doing? Corinne I’m doing good. Is there something I should talk about other than the weather? Virginia Well, it’s March, which is my least favorite month of the year weather-wise in New York. So if you have good weather tidings, you can bring them to us. Because I don’t. Corinne We have had a few unseasonably warm days, I’m talking low 70s, and the bulbs are starting to come up. Virginia I’m jealous of everybody else’s spring. I live in a very cold part of the world and it will not be spring for many, many more weeks. But that’s nice for you. Subscribe now Corinne Yes. Shall we get to the questions? I’ll read the first one. Javier Zayas Photography, Getty Images I turned 49 in January. My hair is brown, ash blonde and going silver along the hairline. I have a hair stylist who loves to do color and is very good at it. I’ve been thinking about doing color or streaks as a way to mark this fifth decade. But what color? In my dreams, it’s sparkling gold, but I’m not actually Galadriel. I don’t want anything neon. If you’ve colored your hair, how did you choose which color? Especially if it wasn’t for overall beauty labor reasons, but more as pleasure. Virginia I love this. I love the idea of dyeing your hair to mark turning 50, specifically dyeing it what sounds like a not found-in-nature color. How many hair colors have you had Corinne? Corinne Mainly one. I dyed my hair pink in high school. I think I dyed my hair darker brown in college once, just box dye. I’ve never seen a professional hair colorist. But I have been thinking a lot about this because, you know, I recently got my colors done . Big Undies What Colors Can You Wear? About a month ago I uploaded a bunch of photos of myself to a google drive folder for a Color Analysis Expert to scrutinize and then tell me something about myself… Read more 2 months ago · 46 likes · 46 comments · Corinne Fay Virginia Oh, that’s right! We are going to have a whole episode about getting your colors done, people! The early teaser for that is that I’m still waiting for my results. But yes, so you got your colors done. And did it make you rethink your hair color? Corinne Well, yes, and no. I think a lot of people use that framework for choosing hair color when dyeing their hair. So that is one way to think about it. And I did sort of have the question, like: Well, if gray isn’t one of my colors, and my hair is starting to go gray, what does that mean? Should I think about coloring it? Virginia But wouldn’t your hair naturally go the right gray for you? Corinne I mean, I think there are different interpretations. Virginia Is there a right gray? Maybe you have no grays in your approved colors. Corinne I’m a true spring so I think I would want like a lighter gray? I don’t know. Big Undies Trying To Be a True Spring Earlier this year I had my color analysis done by Carol Brailey who I found through TikTok where she has more than 300,000 followers. The results blew my mind. I previously typed myself as a summer (I always thought I was cool toned? Do I even know myself?) but Carol declared me as a true spring—warm, bright, and light… Read more 24 days ago · 17 likes · 3 comments · Corinne Fay Virginia More of like a blonde gray ? There’s so much to discuss on this whole colors thing, because I am something of a skeptic. I started as a devotee, now I’m a skeptic. So stay tuned for the colors episode. But I could see it being both helpful and stressful when it comes to thinking about hair color. I have never had fun colored hair. I have a child with blue hair, so I do know quite a lot about the maintenance involved in living with fun color hair, and it’s a part time job of mine to maintain that. But I’ve never had it for myself. I had a brief blonde period in college—if I can find photographic evidence, I will consider revealing that to the world. You can see the color of my eyebrows. They are dark, dark brown, so it was very like 90’s Tori Spelling. It was not a natural state for me. It was 2001, so more of a J. Lo Blonde, but you can see those dark roots and brows. So that was a mistake. And then I stayed my natural color, which is dark brown, all through my 20’s and 30’s. But sometime after I had my second child, my hair stylist—who is one of the most important long-term relationships of my life, she’s been cutting my hair since I was maybe 29—slowly nudged me over into color, and now I do get my hair colored, and it’s a mix of a base color and highlights. I don’t really understand what happens, I just let her do what she wants because I trust her implicitly with my head. And I like not having to make decisions about it, and that it always looks good. But it is a point of reckoning, because I don’t actually care about the beauty labor piece. Like, I don’t actually care about covering my grays, but she is covering my grays most of the time anyway. Corinne So how do you know you don’t care about it? Virginia Because when they grow back in, I’m like, “Oh, hey, that’s fun. Gray hairs!" When I’m in between, you know? I’m not, like, I want to cover the grays. That’s not why I’m doing it. I’m doing it because I like going to see her and hanging out with my friend, and I enjoy what it looks like when she’s done. Like, it is pleasure. And it’s pleasure that upholds a beauty standard, so I feel complicated about it. But the way I choose the color is I just go to the salon and I trust the person who knows very well what to do. And it sounds like this reader, this listener, has someone in their life who does that. So I think I would start there! Go to your hair stylist and be like, “Okay, let’s do something fun.” And I feel like she’s going to blow your mind. Corinne I agree. And I also think I wouldn’t let not being Galadriel stop you from getting or wanting sparkling gold hair. Virginia I think it could be pretty sparkling! Hair color technology has come a really long way. If you’re doing salon color, they can do quite a lot, especially if you have some silver you’ve already got some bleached parts. I think it could be pretty awesome. Corinne Just based on your description, brown ash blonde, going silver, sounds like a good match for sparkling gold. Virginia If you do it, please send us pictures! We would love to see this. Leave a comment Okay, next question: Even though I’ve been in the anti-diet space for years, once in a while, I think maybe I should just try Zepbound and see what happens. Has anyone else been pulled into these thoughts? Corinne “See what happens.” What are we talking about here? Virginia We’re talking about weight loss. We’re talking about seeing how much weight loss will happen. Corinne One good thing to remember about these drugs is that they do cause weight loss in most people, but they don’t cause weight loss in everyone. And, if you ever want to stop taking them, you will likely regain the weight. So I think the question is: Do you want to go on this drug, see how much weight you can lose, then go off it and regain the weight? Is that a net positive? Virginia That’s a really useful framing. Because what you’re essentially saying is: Do you want to go back on a diet? It’s not that different from what I presume most of us have done with intentional weight loss in the past. It’s just a different delivery vehicle. You want to try the drug approach versus the diet approach now. Or a lot of people end up doing both, whatever. I think all of us have had these thoughts, right? It’s hard. The drugs are everywhere. People are talking about them constantly. We’re human. Of course there are moments where I’m like, “Am I going to be the last fat mom in the Hudson Valley?” Corinne Oh God! I do just want to also make the point now though, that a lot of people also go on these drugs, lose a lot of weight, and are still fat. Virginia Thank you for saying that. Excellent note. Or don’t even lose that much weight. Not everybody responds the same way. That’s the thing. So you can have the thought. There’s nothing wrong with having the thought. But it’s important to put the thought into the context of what’s actually happening with these drugs. Which is the same thing that always happens with dieting. Yes, some people are losing weight on it for some unspecified amount of time. And not everybody is losing dramatic amounts. It’s just dieting. So yes, we’re constantly tempted to reconsider an anti-diet stance because we live in a culture that’s constantly telling us to. Share Corinne Totally. I do think within the anti-diet space, we’ve become so anti-these drugs that I can sort of understand being like, “What if I just tried it,” you know? And I think if you want to try it, that’s fine. But I do think it’s good to just have a reality check of what that’s actually going to look like. Virginia Be realistic about where you’re going with it. Corinne You could even just start by looking into how much it might cost. Virginia Oh, yeah. That might clarify some choices. Corinne Yeah. It might be like, well, if I can get it for free, sure, I’ll try it. But if I have to pay $2,000 a month, no thank you. Virginia If it’s a second mortgage payment. Yeah, and how do I feel about chronic nausea? I was thinking about this because I just had food poisoning at the end of my vacation, and we won’t talk about it because Corinne is very triggered by discussions of food poisoning and specifically airplane-adjacent vomiting. But when it happened I was like, people are signing up to feel this way? It feels so awful feeling nauseous! It’s an awful feeling. If you’re on the drugs and you don’t feel nauseous—I get it, not everybody does. But that’s the most common side effect. And to voluntarily be like, “Let me do something where I’m going to walk around feeling nauseous.” I’m like, I have been pregnant twice. I have had stomach bugs. I could be retired from that feeling, thank you. Corinne I think nausea is one of the worst feelings in the world. And, I can understand the calculus between, would I trade feeling nauseous to experience less fatphobia? Like, that’s real. There’s a lot to think about. Virginia I think we’re saying it makes sense you’re pulled into these thoughts. We’re offering some larger context in which to put the thoughts. We support you doing whatever you want to do, but that’s the calculus we’re landing on. We get the thoughts, and then we put it in the larger context and we move on in our fat lives. But your mileage may vary, and that’s fair. You’re still welcome here. Subscribe now Corinne Good luck! Alright, here’s the next question. skynesher, Getty Images I would love to hear a discussion on the ways movement spaces are geared towards smaller bodies, even in subtle ways—because it pisses me off, and I can’t be alone in this! For instance, I enjoy a morning spin class with a friend of mine, and when the gym got new bikes, the new models moved the lever to adjust intensity to the front/middle. Now, as a fat person, my stomach bumps the dang thing and resets it throughout my workout. Clearly, bigger bodied people were not considered when creating this piece of exercise equipment. Not shocking, but super frustrating! Keep your anti-fatness out of my delightful morning spin. Virginia I’m so annoyed about this. Corinne Yeah, that’s horrible. Virginia Ot’s so dumb. I hope you’ve complained to the gym, because they should know they bought equipment that does not serve their clients. That’s irritating. Corinne You should definitely complain to the gym and possibly also the company that manufactures the bikes. Virginia It’s just rude. I mean, my solution to this is that I don’t work out in mainstream fitness spaces. I work out in my home where it is sized to me. Because I find this constantly maddening. And I think it is subtle stuff. It’s the equipment, it’s the physical built space, and it’s also the felt experience of being the fat person in a space that is oriented around thinness. I just don’t like putting myself into it. So that’s not very helpful. I’ve spent a bunch of money on weights for my house, and I have space to use them. But that’s not everybody. Corinne This question was interesting to me, because I actually feel like I don’t encounter this a lot at my gym. Virginia Say more. Corinne I feel like a lot of the equipment at my gym is designed to hold really heavy weights, because people are lifting really heavy weights. And a lot of the equipment is extremely adjustable. There are two bikes at my gym—they’re what are called assault bikes . Is that the real name? You pump your arms and pedal your feet. But the seat moves up and down, and it moves forward and back. So you can really kind of adjust it. When one arm is pulled all the way back, sometimes I do hit my belly, but it’s fine. Virginia I am googling an assault bike. We’ll put a visual for people like me who have not heard of this. I just have to say, there’s just no end to fitness equipment that looks like torture devices. And why do they keep inventing these things? Image via AssaultFitness.com Corinne It’s literally just a bike with with arm pedals. One thing I really like about it is the front is, I guess it’s like a flywheel or something? So it blows air on you. It’s cooling. Virginia Oh, that’s nice. Why does that have such an aggressive name, though? Corinne I do not know. That’s why I was like, is that the real name? I’m not sure. Virginia Why can’t it be called the breezy bike? Corinne Okay, I don’t know. But my other thought about this was, I was recalling that I encountered this a lot in yoga studios where you would get a strap and sometimes it wouldn’t be long enough. If there was a place I was going all the time, I would know which strap I had to get. Virginia And yoga mats are not cut for everybody, they can be too skinny. Corinne Yeah, not wide enough or not long enough. Leave a comment Virginia And depending on the number of people they’re trying to cram into the class if you go into a popular yoga studio, you can feel really cramped. The space my body will need to move comfortably here is not available. I hate that. It makes sense that a sport like powerlifting would be better on this since lots of different body sizes powerlift and you’re lifting heavier weights. And I think there’s more inclusivity in terms of the size of athlete it attracts. Whereas something like spin or yoga, which are thin lady sports, are going to be really annoying on this front. Which is not to say you have to be a powerlifter, but I think if you love a sport that really emphasizes thinness or has a thin ideal, you’re going to have to advocate more. Corinne I am also curious: Are you sure the bike doesn’t adjust at all? But maybe it doesn’t adjust in a helpful way. Virginia I’m kind of guessing maybe this person has already explored that. Corinne I will say I experienced this a lot in other spaces. Anywhere else that has seats. Bathrooms sometimes. Why is the toilet paper blocking where I need to sit. Virginia Bathroom stalls are so narrow. That’s really real. Oh, I will link Dr. Rachel Millner , who is a wonderful eating disorder therapist and fat activist. She has been posting a lot of content on Instagram—she’s on a mission to become a fat Peloton instructor. She’s posted a lot of great content talking about adjustments you can make riding your Peloton bike, and how to do that as a fat person more comfortably. So we can link to that. Rachel is amazing. drrachelmillner A post shared by @drrachelmillner I just think this speaks to the lack of inclusivity. Like, Peloton still has only ever had one fat instructor, Ash Pryor, who is a rowing instructor, not a spin instructor. So that’s not great. I mean, she’s great, but the inclusivity is not great there. Peloton fans, you don’t have to email me. I know how much you love your Pelotons. But even brands that nod towards being anti-diet, or even attempt to represent anti-diet are not always fat inclusive. Like, it’s skinny ladies talking about being anti-diet. I mean, this comes up for me even in the workouts I do at home. I mean, I do videos by two women I absolutely adore and have relationships with, so I can offer this feedback. But sometimes I’ll be like, yeah, that twist didn’t work for my belly, you know? There’s just a lot where someone in a smaller body, might suggest a child’s pose where your knees press into your stomach, and as a fat person, you’re like, yeah, that is not my ministry. I’m not going to enjoy that one . And I think the onus is really on the industry, and I think there are people really trying to do better at this, but if they haven’t had that experience they just don’t know if they’re not really making an effort to talk to fat clients about what they need. Corinne I’m sorry this is happening to you. I hope you can get a good solution. Share Virginia This next question is very funny to me. This person wrote: Martinns, Getty Images Do you like to watch sports? How did you become a fan? Are you becoming a fan? What’s that like? And what do you wish you were a fan of? Will you never be a fan? Corinne Wow, a lot of questions packed right in there. Virginia Okay, do we like to watch sports? We’ll go one by one. We can both answer it. Do you like to watch sports? Corinne Yes. Virginia Okay. I would say no, until quite recently. Corinne Okay, I will say yes, but I know nothing about them. But I have always enjoyed the Super Bowl, because I really enjoy the Super Bowl snacks. And I think it’s cool to watch people doing athletics. Virginia I feel about watching sports the same way I feel about exercise, which is that I’m never naturally going to want to do it. But sometimes I end up being glad I did and enjoying it more than I expected? Corinne That’s fair. I mean, I’m watching it, and I’m like, well, don’t really know what’s going on, but cool to watch. Subscribe now Virginia So I have someone in my life who’s a big football fan now. Which means I did watch quite a lot of football this past season. And I don’t understand what they do, and I am concerned about the traumatic brain injury stuff, and I have many feminist critiques of the NFL. And I will also say, it’s fun when they suddenly do run really fast across the field, and you’re like, well that seems impressive . And I enjoy the player backstories. I can be here for the gossip. I know a lot of player backstories now. I don’t understand what’s happening in the game, but I like that part. Corinne Did you become a fan? Are you becoming a fan? Virginia I don’t want to commit to a position on being a fan. That feels like a big step for me. I mean, I have historically been probably the most anti-sports person you could meet. This is all quite new and disconcerting for me. My dad is a lifelong fan, loves all the sports. My extended family are hardcore football and basketball fans. I grew up just being completely allergic to the whole thing. Corinne Well, this year I’m trying to get into watching the WNBA. Virginia This is the other thing we need to talk about. I do feel like women’s sports finally getting a modicum of more attention is helping me quite a lot. I mean, obviously this NFL thing is not a women’s sport. But I feel like Simone Biles helped me understand that maybe I could care about sports a little bit . Certainly, the Williams sisters have done a lot on that front. And then now women’s basketball. Corinne Yeah, I will say basketball is fun to watch because it’s really fast and not very long. Virginia Which is the opposite of football. That is the slowest game. I did not understand. One minute can be three hours. It’s wild. It makes you question the entire concept of time. My mom is really into women’s basketball, so I feel very basketball adjacent. Even if I’m not watching it, I’m often being informed about it. Corinne Yeah, it is really fun to watch. Also fun to learn the gossip backstories. I have been watching, along with the Substack chat, which was has also been fun. Virginia I mean, makes sports very fun. I read Frankie—a nd of course, we can link to Frankie’s interview on Burnt Toast —even though I am not following any sport closely enough. They always make me laugh and also blow my mind. Corinne Totally. So I think we’re both getting more into watching sports. Virginia And some of us feel complicated about it? Some of us might have to write a think piece about it at some point? Corinne Please write a think piece. And I’m curious what other Burnt Toasties are watching or not watching! Leave a comment Virginia I will say, after I wrote about the Super Bowl , I realized we do have some die hard football fans, because those were people who got cranky with me about that Super Bowl piece. In some cases, rightfully so, but also just don’t mess with sports fans. It’s exhausting. They feel so strongly and so deeply. And it’s like, You do realize this is all made up? Some people are on a field with a ball and nothing changes in the world? Sorry sports fans. I support you. I see you. But your fervor is sometimes absurd to me. I mean, it’s like Taylor Swift fans. Corinne I was just going to say that. Yes, Swifties. Virginia The sports fans and Swifties and all of the fandoms. People feel this strongly. It’s understandable. Want to read the last question? Corinne Yes. The next question is: This question is both late and like THE question right now, to the point that it can feel trite. But also, I’m desperate to hear people’s ongoing thoughts and ideas around how to stay sane in this onslaught of terribleness. Not hoping for any big solutions—though, absolutely welcome if you have any, maybe just one or two things you guys are finding helpful right now. Virginia I mean, just to put into context, we are recording this on February 26. You’re going to hear it in early March. So the terribleness this week is the Republicans just absolutely gutting Medicaid yesterday in their budget vote. The federal government layoffs continuing apace, and oh also, now suddenly we’re blaming Ukraine for the war with Russia. Like, yeah, cool, cool. So the terribleness is intense, and obviously by the time this episode airs, there will be 50 million new terrible things, and what I just said will be completely out of date. So I’m just situating us in this moment of terribleness before we give our answers here. Corinne Yep. What are we doing? Virginia I would say the number one thing I am doing that is helping me is calling my reps. You taught me about this last year when we were advocating for ceasefire in Gaza— just use the five calls app . I think people know about the five calls app, but if you’re like me, you might have downloaded it and not used it yet or for a while. Because I definitely did that for a while after you first told me about it, where I was like, yeah, I’m going to use it, but it’s scary. It’s scary. I don’t want to make the calls! It’s scary! I’ll just have it on my phone for a while. And then I did finally do the first Gaza call. I was like, okay. And now I’ve re-upped using five calls, and I don’t manage to call every day, but I definitely try to call like, three or so times a week is kind of my baseline. I have it on my to-do list every day. It always only takes three minutes. There was one scary time where I had to talk to a person, but mostly I’m leaving voicemails. You can call after hours if you would prefer to just leave voicemails. And it does make me feel like, okay, I am doing the one thing that we as constituents can do right now. I am using my voice to inform my representatives of my disgust and tell them what I want them to be doing. And it’s helping me focus in a little bit. I knew that budget vote was the big thing happening this week, because the app will be like, vote on this day is happening now. So you can kind of be like, “This is the fire I’m actually going to pay attention to,” because there are so many things on fire all the time now, and it’s overwhelming. But like, okay, I’m tackling this one. Like, when RFK was going to be confirmed, I was like, I am calling about RFK this week. I can do this one thing. So that is really a game changer for me. It makes me feel informed, and also then like I can step away the rest of the day a little bit and preserve my own sanity, because I did the one thing. Share Corinne It just feels a little bit less like shouting into a void. I feel like there’s so much posting on social media, and not that that has no value, but it’s like, what value does it have? I don’t know. I would just rather make one phone call than post like five Instagram stories about whatever. Virginia I mean, we’re so polarized. It’s very unlikely that anything I post on my Instagram Stories is being seen by people, A with the power to do anything, or B who don’t already agree with me. So the performative nature of that was getting really old to me. I mean, it’s sometimes informative. There are sometimes things I hear about on social media before I read about it in the news. And that’s valuable. But it feels otherwise, just like a waste of energy. And so making the calls is like, okay, I used my voice in the most productive way I can. Corinne Yeah. The other thing I want to recommend on that front is the Substack . Do you follow that one? It’s a daily political action email. So every day they give you a thing to do, and I think a lot of it is kind of focused on Democrats and its more national electoral politics focused, but if that’s your thing, I do think it’s helpful. Virginia Okay, I love that. This is related to what we just talked about with doing a little less on social media. But ever since I did my Instagram break over the holidays—we’re now in March, almost March, as we’re recording this, and I have continued. I still go on Instagram, but only when I’m going to post, and then I delete the app. I’m not using it for doomscrolling anymore. And I think that is really, really helping. Like, it hasn’t been perfect. I had random insomnia one night, and I was like, well, fuck it. I’m going to download it and stare at Instagram till my eyes burn. But for the most part, I’m much less on it. And there has been absolutely no downside. Corinne Wow, I gotta do that. Virginia It just really feels great. Don’t miss it at all. I don’t know that I’m going to quit it completely because, for business purposes, whatever, whatever. And I haven’t added Bluesky, I haven’t added any new replacement social media. I’m just on Substack, which doesn’t feel like social media to me in quite the same way. I think it’s just giving me a little bit of space. So I think finding space is important. Subscribe now Corinne One thing that’s completely unrelated, but, one of my friends sent me a care package the other day, and it was so nice. And now one thing I want to do to distract myself from the terribleness is send people care packages so I’m going to endorse that as a large-scale solution for everyone. Virginia Even if you can’t send a care package, maybe you can send a card? I do think, like, time with our people. Everyone’s been saying this, but I do really feel that. Another thing that we’re doing locally in my house is Friend Friday. My seven-year-old named it. Where on Friday nights when I have the kids, we invite some friends over for takeout and all the kids play or watch a movie. It’s not revolutionary. I was actually doing it for a long time before we named it, but I’ve now told a group of friends that it’s a standing invite. I’ll send the text to remind but standing invite if you want to come over this Friday and then if you don’t make it, you can come to another Friday. Because I have them two Fridays a month, and that’s making me feel like I’m continuing to invest in my local people in a way that feels good. Corinne Yeah, I have a standing dinner date with some friends once a week, and it’s so nice. Virginia Oh, that’s beautiful. Do you go out? Corinne No, we rotate whose house it’s at. So someone cooks, but then it’s like, if you’re doing it with three other people, you basically only have to cook once a month for four people. Virginia Right. Corinne It’s really nice. Virginia I want more things like that in my life. More like we have these touch points of when we’ll see people and just having those breaks. And I mean, you know, as someone who does long solo parenting stretches, I really need the adult time to pace myself with that. And it really helps, and it makes my kids happy, and I feel like it’s making my kids have a sense of us as part of a larger community. And you know, that feels really useful right now. We had more helpful advice for that one than I thought. I thought we were just going to be depressed and have nothing and just be sad. But, yeah, we’re doing what we can. We’re chipping away at it. I guess. Corinne We’re trying, for sure. Virginia We’re trying. I’m trying. Share Butter Corinne Well, speaking of staying sane, what’s your Butter this week? Virginia My Butter this week is going to be meatballs. I’ve been on a meatball kick because I regularly cook for one vegetarian pasta lover, but I love pasta sauces with meat in it. And then I have another child who doesn’t like any kind of tomato sauce. And I realized that making a batch of meatballs and keeping them separate from the sauce to spare the vegetarian means that the child who doesn’t like tomato sauce will eat the meatballs because they are not tainted by the sauce. So you see, you see what my life is? But I then get to eat pasta with meatballs one night, which I love, and then I have a bunch of leftover meatballs for the week. A recent spaghetti and meatballs night, with separate components. (And Julia Turshen’s Italian Salad!) And today for lunch right before we got on to record, I’d made some lamb meatballs. They were really good, and I’d throw them in with a cup of Minute Rice, and then I had some leftover salad that didn’t have any dressing on it, that I just added, and then, dumped a bunch of creamy dressing all over the top of the whole thing. And it was such a good lunch. Corinne That sounds delicious! Virginia Having those meatballs made in my fridge made lunch come together in a very useful way. So yeah, Sunday meatballs! That’s my Butter. Corinne Wow, more meatballs. My Butter is probably one of those things everyone already knows about, but I’ve been watching Severance. Virginia Oh, I need to start the new season. Corinne Yeah, I needed to go back and re-watch the first season, because I started watching season two, and I was like, I remember nothing. But it’s great. I’m really enjoying it. Also just want to shout out that there’s a tiny bit of fat rep. The character Dylan on Severance is a fat man, and he does some really important things. Hopefully he continues to be a good character in season two. But yeah, I’m really enjoying the show, and just wanted to shout out that there’s a fat person without, at least so far, a weight loss storyline. Virginia We love it. We love to see it. I’m excited to get into that. I also need to re watch season one, and then I want to do White Lotus too. So I’m like, oh, that’s two stressful shows. I gotta pick which stressful show I’m going to watch, because I can only handle so much. But they’re both on my list. Subscribe now The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow me on Instagram ) and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus , and Big Undies — subscribe for 20% off ! The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe . Our theme music is by Farideh . Tommy Harron is our audio engineer. Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism! Share…

Burnt Toast by Virginia Sole-Smith

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